Looting in Red - Demonic Tutor2024-03-29T13:35:29Zhttp://demonictutor.ning.com/forum/topics/looting-in-red?id=3440403%3ATopic%3A52442&feed=yes&xn_auth=noThis is the problem. While r…tag:demonictutor.ning.com,2012-04-23:3440403:Comment:528582012-04-23T13:13:11.531ZThom Richardsonhttp://demonictutor.ning.com/profile/ThomRichardson
<p>This is the problem. While red looting is giving red a much needed additional slice of the pie, it isnt really doing anything to address the fact that in constructed red only has 4 roles:</p>
<p></p>
<p>1) Red deck wins</p>
<p>2) Splash removal colour for control/ramp decks.</p>
<p>3) Splash burn for base other colour aggro. Boros, Vampires, RG beats.</p>
<p>4) Support colour for blue combo decks.</p>
<p></p>
<p>All the other colours actually get to build different decks every set. But red…</p>
<p>This is the problem. While red looting is giving red a much needed additional slice of the pie, it isnt really doing anything to address the fact that in constructed red only has 4 roles:</p>
<p></p>
<p>1) Red deck wins</p>
<p>2) Splash removal colour for control/ramp decks.</p>
<p>3) Splash burn for base other colour aggro. Boros, Vampires, RG beats.</p>
<p>4) Support colour for blue combo decks.</p>
<p></p>
<p>All the other colours actually get to build different decks every set. But red just takes the best aggressive cards and throws them in "The red deck" (which may or may not actually exist).</p>
<p></p>
<p>It is just a bit dull really.</p>
<p></p>
<p><br/> <cite>Thomas David Baker said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://demonictutor.ning.com/forum/topics/looting-in-red?page=2&commentId=3440403%3AComment%3A52997&x=1#3440403Comment52997"><div class="xg_user_generated"><p></p>
<p>Which is fine and all but I was hoping we could make R good at something else as opposed to just a bit better at what it currently does (dump its hand and hope it wins, burn you out once its creatures have been obsoleted).</p>
<p> </p>
<p></p>
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</blockquote> Right, so R access to looting…tag:demonictutor.ning.com,2012-04-23:3440403:Comment:529972012-04-23T12:28:09.408ZThomas David Bakerhttp://demonictutor.ning.com/profile/ThomasDavidBaker
<p>Right, so R access to looting becomes a very different thing to U looting where you get to see a bunch of cards and take the best (think: four creatures die with Murder of Crows in play) and instead becomes "when you have nothing in hand or only lands that you don't need, this is good, otherwise it is basically useless".</p>
<p>Which is fine and all but I was hoping we could make R good at something else as opposed to just a bit better at what it currently does (dump its hand and hope it…</p>
<p>Right, so R access to looting becomes a very different thing to U looting where you get to see a bunch of cards and take the best (think: four creatures die with Murder of Crows in play) and instead becomes "when you have nothing in hand or only lands that you don't need, this is good, otherwise it is basically useless".</p>
<p>Which is fine and all but I was hoping we could make R good at something else as opposed to just a bit better at what it currently does (dump its hand and hope it wins, burn you out once its creatures have been obsoleted).</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Final word on the matter from Mr. Rosewater in Making Magic today:</p>
<p> </p>
<blockquote><p>When <i>Dark Ascension</i> came out and I talked about <a class="nodec">Faithless Looting</a>, I said that looting was being moved into red (in addition to being in blue) and that R&D was planning to give it its own identity, but we hadn't figured it out by <i>Dark Ascension</i>. Well, we did by <i>Avacyn Restored</i>. So now it's time to fill you in on how red looting is going to work. Two rules, really:</p>
<p><b>Rule #1) Red discards before drawing.</b> Red is reckless, blue is methodical. One way to allow looting in both colors was to change how they did it. The fact that red is throwing things away not knowing what is coming felt very red, while blue wanting to know everything before making a decision felt more blue.</p>
<p><b>Rule #2) Red cannot get card advantage through looting.</b> What this means is that sometimes we make looting cards where the player is up cards. These cards are half looting/half card-drawing. We decided that those don't make sense in red, so we've chosen to keep them out.</p>
<p>There are a bunch of caveats to this rule. First, we do count the card being used when casting it, so red could have a spell that discards one and draws two because overall it's not up cards. Second, we're wording some cards such that red can get card advantage if its hand is empty. (Dangerous Wager is one such card.)</p>
<p>But wait, you say, don't both of these rules work in blue's favor? Isn't blue getting the better version each time? Yes, but two things. One, we will be costing them accordingly, so red gets a little cost saving for its recklessness. Two, looting is actually very synergistic with red's style of play. Getting that last piece of direct damage can very often win the game for red, so getting looting will be good for red overall.</p>
<p>One last thing—Tibalt might be making many people think that red is going to be getting a lot of random discard. No, it will not. Red will get it infrequently when we need to use it (more on this when I get to Tibalt), but by default—which will be the vast majority of the time—red's discard will not be random.</p>
</blockquote> It seems great - encourages y…tag:demonictutor.ning.com,2012-04-23:3440403:Comment:530812012-04-23T10:39:52.579ZDan Barretthttp://demonictutor.ning.com/profile/DanBarrett
<p>It seems great - encourages you to get hellbent, at which point it's an instant speed draw-2!</p>
<p>It seems great - encourages you to get hellbent, at which point it's an instant speed draw-2!</p> Other looting in R in Avacyn…tag:demonictutor.ning.com,2012-04-23:3440403:Comment:530802012-04-23T10:08:00.025ZThomas David Bakerhttp://demonictutor.ning.com/profile/ThomasDavidBaker
<p>Other looting in R in Avacyn Restored:</p>
<p></p>
<p>"<span>Draw a card, then discard a card at random." as the +1 on the RR planeswalker.</span></p>
<p>"Discard your hand, then draw 2 cards" as an instant for 1R.</p>
<p>"<span>Each player discards his or her hand and draws seven cards." as a Sorcery for 3RR (Miracle: 1R).</span></p>
<p><span><br></br></span></p>
<p>So, same old same old really. R did not get access to anything as good as Merfolk Looter. I guess these effects are more in…</p>
<p>Other looting in R in Avacyn Restored:</p>
<p></p>
<p>"<span>Draw a card, then discard a card at random." as the +1 on the RR planeswalker.</span></p>
<p>"Discard your hand, then draw 2 cards" as an instant for 1R.</p>
<p>"<span>Each player discards his or her hand and draws seven cards." as a Sorcery for 3RR (Miracle: 1R).</span></p>
<p><span><br/></span></p>
<p>So, same old same old really. R did not get access to anything as good as Merfolk Looter. I guess these effects are more in keeping with R's "personality" though. The instant is possibly good but serves to keep R as one-dimensional as ever, no?</p>
<p></p>
<p></p> Could be cheaper tbh, R2 for…tag:demonictutor.ning.com,2012-04-21:3440403:Comment:529892012-04-21T22:50:51.323ZPaul Hodgsonhttp://demonictutor.ning.com/profile/PaulHodgson
<p>Could be cheaper tbh, R2 for a 2/1 would be better</p>
<p>Could be cheaper tbh, R2 for a 2/1 would be better</p> Ew, discard as part of the co…tag:demonictutor.ning.com,2012-04-21:3440403:Comment:530742012-04-21T22:32:28.559ZLouis Mackiehttp://demonictutor.ning.com/profile/LouisMackie
<p>Ew, discard as part of the cost?</p>
<p>Ew, discard as part of the cost?</p> ~Mad Prophet
Creature - H…tag:demonictutor.ning.com,2012-04-21:3440403:Comment:528492012-04-21T22:22:56.957ZThomas David Bakerhttp://demonictutor.ning.com/profile/ThomasDavidBaker
<table align="center" border="0" cellspacing="0" width="290">
<tbody><tr><td width="220px"><h3>~Mad Prophet</h3>
</td>
<td align="right" width="80px"><img alt="3" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/mana3.gif"></img> <img alt="r" class="inlineimg" src="http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manar.gif"></img></td>
</tr>
<tr><td width="220px">Creature - Human</td>
<td align="right" width="80px"><img alt="Uncommon" src="http://mtgsalvation.com/images/spoiler/avacyn-restored-uncommon.gif"></img></td>
</tr>
<tr><td colspan="2">Haste<br></br><img alt="{T}" src="http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/tap.gif"></img> , Discard a card: Draw a card.</td>
</tr>
<tr><td><i>#146/244…</i></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<table border="0" cellspacing="0" width="290" align="center">
<tbody><tr><td width="220px"><h3>~Mad Prophet</h3>
</td>
<td align="right" width="80px"><img src="http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/mana3.gif" alt="3" class="inlineimg"/><img src="http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/manar.gif" alt="r" class="inlineimg"/></td>
</tr>
<tr><td width="220px">Creature - Human</td>
<td align="right" width="80px"><img src="http://mtgsalvation.com/images/spoiler/avacyn-restored-uncommon.gif" alt="Uncommon"/></td>
</tr>
<tr><td colspan="2">Haste<br/><img src="http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/images/smilies/tap.gif" alt="{T}"/>, Discard a card: Draw a card.</td>
</tr>
<tr><td><i>#146/244</i></td>
<td align="right">2/2</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table> Spanish cards are sweet, need…tag:demonictutor.ning.com,2012-04-18:3440403:Comment:529212012-04-18T09:33:45.501ZPaul Hodgsonhttp://demonictutor.ning.com/profile/PaulHodgson
<p>Spanish cards are sweet, need to get some inquisitions of kozilek for the obvious gag :D</p>
<p>Spanish cards are sweet, need to get some inquisitions of kozilek for the obvious gag :D</p> picture.
http://forums.mtgsal…tag:demonictutor.ning.com,2012-04-18:3440403:Comment:528282012-04-18T09:05:45.168ZThom Richardsonhttp://demonictutor.ning.com/profile/ThomRichardson
<p>picture.</p>
<p><a href="http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=130170&d=1334687035">http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=130170&d=1334687035</a></p>
<p></p>
<p>card is super sweet!</p>
<p><br></br> <br></br> <cite>Thomas David Baker said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://demonictutor.ning.com/forum/topics/looting-in-red?page=2&commentId=3440403%3AComment%3A52813&x=1#3440403Comment52813"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>The only…</p>
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</blockquote>
<p>picture.</p>
<p><a href="http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=130170&d=1334687035">http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=130170&d=1334687035</a></p>
<p></p>
<p>card is super sweet!</p>
<p><br/> <br/> <cite>Thomas David Baker said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://demonictutor.ning.com/forum/topics/looting-in-red?page=2&commentId=3440403%3AComment%3A52813&x=1#3440403Comment52813"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>The only thing I see on that spoiler is that silly planeswalker who has the dreaded disard-at-random.</p>
<p></p>
<p>:(</p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote> The only thing I see on that…tag:demonictutor.ning.com,2012-04-17:3440403:Comment:528132012-04-17T14:24:56.541ZThomas David Bakerhttp://demonictutor.ning.com/profile/ThomasDavidBaker
<p>The only thing I see on that spoiler is that silly planeswalker who has the dreaded disard-at-random.</p>
<p></p>
<p>:(</p>
<p>The only thing I see on that spoiler is that silly planeswalker who has the dreaded disard-at-random.</p>
<p></p>
<p>:(</p>