New Play or Draw Rule Debuts at Amsterdam - Demonic Tutor2024-03-29T13:58:36Zhttp://demonictutor.ning.com/forum/topics/new-play-or-draw-rule-debuts?commentId=3440403%3AComment%3A20140&x=1&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI agree with your logic Dan b…tag:demonictutor.ning.com,2010-08-27:3440403:Comment:201422010-08-27T15:01:43.621ZAmar Dattanihttp://demonictutor.ning.com/profile/AmarDattani
I agree with your logic Dan but in reality I've found that if people can ID they do - boosters normally don't factor into the decision, normally you would rather have a break for the final round before you start the top 8.<br />
Getting a friend into top 8 is sometimes relevant - I agree.<br />
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Anyway I guess we will not know for sure until it is rolled out - it will be interesting to see how or if it influences decisions.
I agree with your logic Dan but in reality I've found that if people can ID they do - boosters normally don't factor into the decision, normally you would rather have a break for the final round before you start the top 8.<br />
Getting a friend into top 8 is sometimes relevant - I agree.<br />
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Anyway I guess we will not know for sure until it is rolled out - it will be interesting to see how or if it influences decisions. There was an incentive to pla…tag:demonictutor.ning.com,2010-08-27:3440403:Comment:201412010-08-27T12:46:48.864ZDaniel Roydehttp://demonictutor.ning.com/profile/DanielRoyde
There was an incentive to play in this situation before- boosters. If you're playing against someone you know, you ID/scoop them in.<br />
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If it's someone you don't know then there's no reason to ID anyway. If you do, you might knock someone you do know into 9th place. The auto winning a die roll seems less significant than this to me.<br />
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So I disagree with you that this should change anyone's behaviour.<br />
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<cite>Amar Dattani said:…</cite>
There was an incentive to play in this situation before- boosters. If you're playing against someone you know, you ID/scoop them in.<br />
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If it's someone you don't know then there's no reason to ID anyway. If you do, you might knock someone you do know into 9th place. The auto winning a die roll seems less significant than this to me.<br />
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So I disagree with you that this should change anyone's behaviour.<br />
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<cite>Amar Dattani said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://demonictutor.ning.com/forum/topics/new-play-or-draw-rule-debuts?page=1&commentId=3440403%3AComment%3A20140&x=1#3440403Comment20140"><div>It impact those players who are paired against someone that doesn't need to ID to top 8, but hey need an ID or a win. Under the old system is it likely an ID would have taken place anyway, but under the new system the player that gets into top 8 regardless will definitely play - and potentially knock out the player who needs an ID or win.<br/> <br/>
<cite>Daniel Royde said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://demonictutor.ning.com/forum/topics/new-play-or-draw-rule-debuts?page=1&commentId=3440403%3AComment%3A20138&x=1#3440403Comment20138"><div>How much of an advantage do you think the die roll is (in a given format)? There certainly can be an advantage, but I don't believe that it's that significant most of the time. The advantage is reduced in 5 game matches.<br/> Also, there's already a reward for doing better in the swiss at the PT- it's the tiebreaker for 3rd/4th and 5-8th. That's worth between $500 and $2000<br/>
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If people need to ID to make top8, they will. If they don't need to ID, then it doesn't really matter what they do since it won't impact who else can make top 8 (or am I wrong with that?).<br/>
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I don't see how this would get rid of the "problem" of IDing.<br/>
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<cite>Amar Dattani said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://demonictutor.ning.com/forum/topics/new-play-or-draw-rule-debuts#3440403Comment20128"><div>This is awesome and rewards doing better in the Swiss - I think this should also be implemented in all events with a top 8 after Amsterdam.<br/> <br/> It will make for exciting Swiss rounds in the later stages of a tournament when people who would normally ID play for a higher Swiss standing.</div>
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</blockquote> It impact those players who a…tag:demonictutor.ning.com,2010-08-27:3440403:Comment:201402010-08-27T12:00:34.580ZAmar Dattanihttp://demonictutor.ning.com/profile/AmarDattani
It impact those players who are paired against someone that doesn't need to ID to top 8, but hey need an ID or a win. Under the old system is it likely an ID would have taken place anyway, but under the new system the player that gets into top 8 regardless will definitely play - and potentially knock out the player who needs an ID or win.<br />
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<cite>Daniel Royde said:…</cite>
It impact those players who are paired against someone that doesn't need to ID to top 8, but hey need an ID or a win. Under the old system is it likely an ID would have taken place anyway, but under the new system the player that gets into top 8 regardless will definitely play - and potentially knock out the player who needs an ID or win.<br />
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<cite>Daniel Royde said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://demonictutor.ning.com/forum/topics/new-play-or-draw-rule-debuts?page=1&commentId=3440403%3AComment%3A20138&x=1#3440403Comment20138"><div>How much of an advantage do you think the die roll is (in a given format)? There certainly can be an advantage, but I don't believe that it's that significant most of the time. The advantage is reduced in 5 game matches.<br/> Also, there's already a reward for doing better in the swiss at the PT- it's the tiebreaker for 3rd/4th and 5-8th.
That's worth between $500 and $2000<br />
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If people need to ID to make top8, they will. If they don't need to ID, then it doesn't really matter what they do since it won't impact who else can make top 8 (or am I wrong with that?).<br />
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I don't see how this would get rid of the "problem" of IDing.<br />
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<cite>Amar Dattani said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://demonictutor.ning.com/forum/topics/new-play-or-draw-rule-debuts#3440403Comment20128"><div>This is awesome and rewards doing better in the Swiss - I think this should also be implemented in all events with a top 8 after Amsterdam.<br/> <br/> It will make for exciting Swiss rounds in the later stages of a tournament when people who would normally ID play for a higher Swiss standing.</div>
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</blockquote> How much of an advantage do y…tag:demonictutor.ning.com,2010-08-27:3440403:Comment:201382010-08-27T11:47:13.904ZDaniel Roydehttp://demonictutor.ning.com/profile/DanielRoyde
How much of an advantage do you think the die roll is (in a given format)? There certainly can be an advantage, but I don't believe that it's that significant most of the time. The advantage is reduced in 5 game matches.<br />
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Also, there's already a reward for doing better in the swiss at the PT- it's the tiebreaker for 3rd/4th and 5-8th.<br />
That's worth between $500 and $2000<br />
<br />
If people need to ID to make top8, they will. If they don't need to ID, then it doesn't really matter what they do since it…
How much of an advantage do you think the die roll is (in a given format)? There certainly can be an advantage, but I don't believe that it's that significant most of the time. The advantage is reduced in 5 game matches.<br />
<br />
Also, there's already a reward for doing better in the swiss at the PT- it's the tiebreaker for 3rd/4th and 5-8th.<br />
That's worth between $500 and $2000<br />
<br />
If people need to ID to make top8, they will. If they don't need to ID, then it doesn't really matter what they do since it won't impact who else can make top 8 (or am I wrong with that?).<br />
<br />
I don't see how this would get rid of the "problem" of IDing.<br />
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<cite>Amar Dattani said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://demonictutor.ning.com/forum/topics/new-play-or-draw-rule-debuts#3440403Comment20128"><div>This is awesome and rewards doing better in the Swiss - I think this should also be implemented in all events with a top 8 after Amsterdam.<br/> <br/>
It will make for exciting Swiss rounds in the later stages of a tournament when people who would normally ID play for a higher Swiss standing.</div>
</blockquote> Basically the people that NEE…tag:demonictutor.ning.com,2010-08-27:3440403:Comment:201362010-08-27T10:42:28.680ZAmar Dattanihttp://demonictutor.ning.com/profile/AmarDattani
Basically the people that NEED an ID to make top8 will both ID but the players that are both guaranteed a top 8 space regardless of if they win or lose will play - this may mean that if they are paired against someone who needs an ID they will be forced to play - which I think is better for the tournament - although this will mean some people who would have made top8 under the old system will now lose out - giving other players a chance.<br />
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Agreed - In Vintage and legacy placing high in the swiss…
Basically the people that NEED an ID to make top8 will both ID but the players that are both guaranteed a top 8 space regardless of if they win or lose will play - this may mean that if they are paired against someone who needs an ID they will be forced to play - which I think is better for the tournament - although this will mean some people who would have made top8 under the old system will now lose out - giving other players a chance.<br />
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Agreed - In Vintage and legacy placing high in the swiss standings will be very important.<br />
This also enhances the 'pro player' reputation as those with 3 byes at GPs will place higher than those without (unless tiebreakers are blanked on day 2 due to a split tournament). This will mean that Pros are more likely to play first and win in the top 8 - this is an extension of how DCI Reporter pairs differently in the final round based on tiebreakers rather than randomly.<br />
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<cite>Dan Barrett said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://demonictutor.ning.com/forum/topics/new-play-or-draw-rule-debuts?page=1&commentId=3440403%3AComment%3A20134&x=1#3440403Comment20134"><div>Given the chance to guarantee myself a top-8 slot, i'm gonna ID.<br/> Especially considering I lose the die roll 60% of the time anyways.
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Also: how brutal is this in Vintage!</div>
</blockquote> Given the chance to guarantee…tag:demonictutor.ning.com,2010-08-27:3440403:Comment:201342010-08-27T10:38:18.427ZDan Barretthttp://demonictutor.ning.com/profile/DanBarrett
Given the chance to guarantee myself a top-8 slot, i'm gonna ID.<br />
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Especially considering I lose the die roll 60% of the time anyways.<br />
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Also: how brutal is this in Vintage!
Given the chance to guarantee myself a top-8 slot, i'm gonna ID.<br />
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Especially considering I lose the die roll 60% of the time anyways.<br />
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Also: how brutal is this in Vintage! i really like it too. think i…tag:demonictutor.ning.com,2010-08-27:3440403:Comment:201312010-08-27T10:11:58.705ZThom Richardsonhttp://demonictutor.ning.com/profile/ThomRichardson
i really like it too. think its a pretty elegant solution for getting people to play out the last matches.<br />
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also if everyone isn't IDing the last round (or 2) doesnt it mean that some people will get in with worse recods than usual? i.e. you drop at 0-3 not 0-2 in a ptq.
i really like it too. think its a pretty elegant solution for getting people to play out the last matches.<br />
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also if everyone isn't IDing the last round (or 2) doesnt it mean that some people will get in with worse recods than usual? i.e. you drop at 0-3 not 0-2 in a ptq. This is awesome and rewards d…tag:demonictutor.ning.com,2010-08-27:3440403:Comment:201282010-08-27T09:45:21.808ZAmar Dattanihttp://demonictutor.ning.com/profile/AmarDattani
This is awesome and rewards doing better in the Swiss - I think this should also be implemented in all events with a top 8 after Amsterdam.<br />
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It will make for exciting Swiss rounds in the later stages of a tournament when people who would normally ID play for a higher Swiss standing.
This is awesome and rewards doing better in the Swiss - I think this should also be implemented in all events with a top 8 after Amsterdam.<br />
<br />
It will make for exciting Swiss rounds in the later stages of a tournament when people who would normally ID play for a higher Swiss standing.