Demonic Tutor

Magic: the Gathering in the UK

Interesting article on the EDH "banned" list and social contracts..

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good article planechase does add some random shenans to the list, defo need to arrange some 4 player games at the club soon, need to rules sorted though as some stuff is banned for 1 person and not for others
There need to be more articles on the social contract as relates to BGD! Get on it Glenn.
I hate this idea that you should make bad decks and that making a good deck is anti-social. For example, this EDH thing at Worlds where you get boosters for eliminating people, is that going to be full of casual decks that go off on some bizarre 8 card combo on Turn 82? Great! And one man's "too good" is another man's "fair" anyway. Where do you draw the line? Decks that cannot possibly win in the first 7 turns no matter what draw they get?

Here's a theory for you.

The way to get people to behave the way you want is to incentivize them to do so.

EDH needs a different way of keeping score than life total. Otherwise Spike after Spike is going to come up with EDH decks which EDH Weenies are going to describe as "unfun" because it regularly wins early on in the game.

If you tell Spike that you get 5 points for eliminating an opponent but 25 points for putting the fifth different spell on the stack he will go build a deck to do that. So all you need is a big long list of things that you consider "fun". You can even give negative points for casing counterspells.

So your EDH games are probably about as "fun" as your alternative points table makes them.

Well, that's the theory. Perhaps I just don't get it.
I'm with u tom - it seems designed for people that suck at constructed :-)

Thomas David Baker said:
I hate this idea that you should make bad decks and that making a good deck is anti-social. For example, this EDH thing at Worlds where you get boosters for eliminating people, is that going to be full of casual decks that go off on some bizarre 8 card combo on Turn 82? Great! And one man's "too good" is another man's "fair" anyway. Where do you draw the line? Decks that cannot possibly win in the first 7 turns no matter what draw they get?
Here's a theory for you.
The way to get people to behave the way you want is to incentivize them to do so.

EDH needs a different way of keeping score than life total. Otherwise Spike after Spike is going to come up with EDH decks which EDH Weenies are going to describe as "unfun" because it regularly wins early on in the game.

If you tell Spike that you get 5 points for eliminating an opponent but 25 points for putting the fifth different spell on the stack he will go build a deck to do that. So all you need is a big long list of things that you consider "fun". You can even give negative points for casing counterspells.

So your EDH games are probably about as "fun" as your alternative points table makes them.

Well, that's the theory. Perhaps I just don't get it.
I believe there is an optional 'alternate points' system, I'll see if I can dig it up when I get home.
Personally I don't think it's broken so why try to fix it? Clearly with prizes at stake at Worlds, there will be no frowning upon comboing out early... Survival of the Fittest > Volrath's Shapeshifter > Phage the Untouchable here I come!

However, I wouldn't dream of playing that combo in our playgroups as it's unfun. To me it's all about context, if you are in a competition, play to win.... Otherwise do what you like/concede to the restrictions of your local playgroup or the commonly held beliefs (the rules comittee).
Can we try and define "unfun", even if it's one particular person's definition of unfun. Because I think that's the bit I don't get.

Is it something as simple as:

* Winning in the first N turns where N is 5? 7?

Or

* Setting up your win and then winning in the same turn?

For example:

If I combo out my 800 Saprolings on Turn 12 and then pass the turn, giving everyone a turn with lots of mana to tutor/dig for wrath or fog effects, that's "fun".

If I combo out 800 Saprolings on Turn 2 and then give them all haste, that's "unfun".

Is that right?
Most people fun it unfun when they can't interact or insta-die (I think...) so setting up and killing in one turn is bad. Obviously it depends on the player.

Your saproling example is pretty good though. Giving everyone a turn to deal with a problem creates some sort of panic/suspense between the rest of the players and I guess that's fun?

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