New eternal constructed format to get around reserved list

[Philip Dickinson]

word on the streets is that they're brewing up a new constructed format which is every expansion and core set from masques onwards with no rotations

this way they can have an eternal style format without ridiculous cost barriers which is suitable for PT/GP/PTQ/etc play

anyone have any thoughts? I think this sounds like a good idea. though the brigade of legacy players who already have all the staples will doubtless complain endlessly about those of us who "didn't have the money/sense" to buy our duals 10 years ago

edit: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=236448

[Daniel Royde]

Certainly the duals issue is a major one.
When the originally previewed temple garden, MaRo did basically say that they were intending to reprint them.

When I said I was unsure about eternal formats being PTQable, I also meant that I am slightly worried that a format that doesn't lose cards could get stale. Or is this not a worry because even if the same decks remain valid for many many years, there are enough valid decks that it's not a problem?


Dan Barrett said:

Also, the Rav duals were not guild-named such that they *could* be reprinted in future...


(doesn't mean they will be, mind)

[Paul Hodgson]

I can't see them coming in the next block, they don't really jive with Mirrodin flavour wise. M11 is a possibility, however given that they came up with Dragonskull Summit etc for M10 that's also unlikely.

Dan Barrett said:

Also, the Rav duals were not guild-named such that they *could* be reprinted in future...


(doesn't mean they will be, mind)

[Ben Titmarsh]

There is a great article on SCG detailing the top 50 decks in legacy, FIFTY DECKS! The smaller the card pool, the more likely the format will get stale, look at pre-rise standard... The fact that you can own a expensive deck (relatively) that is likely to stay competitive for years and years is more of an incentive for me to buy the cards than a reason to avoid the format.

Daniel Royde said:

Certainly the duals issue is a major one.
When the originally previewed temple garden, MaRo did basically say that they were intending to reprint them.

When I said I was unsure about eternal formats being PTQable, I also meant that I am slightly worried that a format that doesn't lose cards could get stale. Or is this not a worry because even if the same decks remain valid for many many years, there are enough valid decks that it's not a problem?


Dan Barrett said:

Also, the Rav duals were not guild-named such that they *could* be reprinted in future...


(doesn't mean they will be, mind)

[Paul Laudano]

Well said.

Ben Titmarsh said:

There is a great article on SCG detailing the top 50 decks in legacy, FIFTY DECKS! The smaller the card pool, the more likely the format will get stale, look at pre-rise standard... The fact that you can own a expensive deck (relatively) that is likely to stay competitive for years and years is more of an incentive for me to buy the cards than a reason to avoid the format.

Daniel Royde said:

Certainly the duals issue is a major one.
When the originally previewed temple garden, MaRo did basically say that they were intending to reprint them.

When I said I was unsure about eternal formats being PTQable, I also meant that I am slightly worried that a format that doesn't lose cards could get stale. Or is this not a worry because even if the same decks remain valid for many many years, there are enough valid decks that it's not a problem?


Dan Barrett said:

Also, the Rav duals were not guild-named such that they *could* be reprinted in future...


(doesn't mean they will be, mind)

[Louis Mackie]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Force of Will is not on the reprint list, and could be reprinted specifically to stop the nutty combo decks that would need major bannings for the format to be playable.

[Paul Laudano]

Yes thats right.

[Daniel Royde]

Ben Titmarsh said:

There is a great article on SCG detailing the top 50 decks in legacy, FIFTY DECKS! The smaller the card pool, the more likely the format will get stale, look at pre-rise standard... The fact that you can own a expensive deck (relatively) that is likely to stay competitive for years and years is more of an incentive for me to buy the cards than a reason to avoid the format.

That's a perfectly reasonable viewpoint that I do partially share, but..

Any particular instance of standard/ block is likely to get boring after a while, but with usually at least 10% new cards every 3 months the format in general remains interesting and varied.

Being able to buy one deck and then play that same deck for a very long time means that the format is unchanging, rather than stale. I'm not sure if I think this is a problem or not.

I always feel as though there are "lots of good decks in legacy" because the format isn't played at such a high level as much- Pros don't spend time testing it. When a format is played on the PT and then in PTQs, often decks that were previously though of as viable, just aren't as good as properly tuned good decks.

I imagine that the legacy meta would change and shrink quite a lot if it were a ptq/pt format.

Since I don't play any eternal atm, it's hard to have a well informed opinion and I do have a naturally anti legacy bias.

(sorry if this post isn't very coherent)

[Philip Dickinson]

obv if they made this format there would be bannings from the start. skullclamp?

Louis Mackie said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Force of Will is not on the reprint list, and could be reprinted specifically to stop the nutty combo decks that would need major bannings for the format to be playable.

[James Mills]

I can play tings again!

[Thomas David Baker]

I'm playing Devil's Advocate here but why not ...

The problem with Legacy isn't the lack of viable decks. There's zillions. It's the matchups. What is the true matchup percentage of the stock Lands list vs. the stock Zoo list? 80-20? That kind of percentage doesn't really exist in Standard or Extended. Tournament winning then becomes about dodging certain matchups and/or canny deck selection.

Will this purported new format have this same problem? Seems likely.

Interesting stuff, though, if true.

I can't help but think that Extended is the One True Format but for some reason it's the least popular. Very expensive to get into but you often need different cards each season is not a good combo, I guess.

[Daniel Royde]

I certainly enjoy playing extended the most. You do need new cards, but you get those through playing standard most of the time. It's nice that cards have a long lifetime (not like 3rd/4th sets of a block in standard), but good that decks rotate out- people have to keep on innovating.

I guess std is more popular because it's more accessible and is actually pushed. Legacy= I don't understand, possibly there are enough die hard legacy fans who like to play their legacy deck that they've always played?

I personally don't have a problem with there being decks which have very good/bad matchups. The reason it doesn't happen much in standard is that most decks are just creature decks of some sort. (A good exception would be a control deck without counterspells can't beat a fog deck)
In std it's hard to make a deck that focusses on a different part of the game/ changes the rules of the game so that other decks just don't work.

I think it's fun to play a matchup where you know that your overall strategy just trumps what your opponent is trying to do. It requires skill since you have to know what your strategy is in all the different matchups- so preparation is rewarded.

Lastly it is usually possible to find decks which have ~50% matchups against most decks, if you want to avoid auto win/losses.

Thomas David Baker said:

I'm playing Devil's Advocate here but why not ...

The problem with Legacy isn't the lack of viable decks. There's zillions. It's the matchups. What is the true matchup percentage of the stock Lands list vs. the stock Zoo list? 80-20? That kind of percentage doesn't really exist in Standard or Extended. Tournament winning then becomes about dodging certain matchups and/or canny deck selection.

Will this purported new format have this same problem? Seems likely.

Interesting stuff, though, if true.

I can't help but think that Extended is the One True Format but for some reason it's the least popular. Very expensive to get into but you often need different cards each season is not a good combo, I guess.

[Nathan Gotlib]

guys, it's all about vintage....