You Make the Set 5

[Thomas David Baker]

We are doing this in our Multiverse app:

http://mv.bluebones.net/

(Old shared Google spreadsheet for this is here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ag7TtjWsLhYkdHBBUHF4RG... )

Channel Fireball just did Top 8 Mechanics:

* Retrace

* Dredge

* Landfall (not for attacking like Steppe Lynx - Grazing Gladehart and Roil Elemental style)

* Scry

* Flashback

* Kicker

* Flying

* Cycling

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiNNg5aj-xo

I wonder if we could use that, or some of that, as the basis of You Make the Set 5.  I know that some of you were keen on Landfall.

Not sure when we would play it out but some time in late May probably?

[Simon O'Keeffe]

Well, I managed to cut 6 uncommons, but we made two new ones...

Cut the rares down by 6 also.

[Thomas David Baker]

Added some notes to cards from last night and added Librarian's Notebook which I think might have a place at Uncommon.  It possibly does too much right now but there's the germ of an idea there.

Now let's talk about retiring Uncommons.

W has 7 so I am not worried about W.

In U there are currently 9 including 6 creatures.  So I nominate Ripple Seer and Deepwater Loon for the chop which at least gets us close.

B has 11.

Strong inclusions for me:

* Embryo Thief (although potentially OP??)

* Mirror Ghoul

* Great Tower Bat

* Vituperation of Flesh

And probably:

* Dalgath Ghastcaller (fills a removal spot making cutting Take Down ok)

* Tomb Whispers (so we have 2 spells?)

Which leaves Corrupt Seer going to Rare (and becoming 1B?) and puts Rotting Messenger, Subversion Priest, Take Down and Envious Ghast out in the cold.

That's also 2-3-4-5 in CMC for B creatures which is nice.

R has 11 too.

Nailed on:

* Goblin Archer

* Empty the Libraries

* Mind Broken Mage

Then I think we want one of Echo of the Phoenix or Burn the Library for a direct damage spell.  I haven't actually played with either I don't think.

Then for the last two slots I would say Looter Elder for the creature (if we want a third creature) and whatever the best of Raid the Library, Ransack the Shelves, Disdainful Research for the last spell.  Really not sure which of those is best.

That leaves Charm-Clad Brute and Conjuror of Tomorrow out but I think that's OK?

G has 13, somehow!

Natural Instinct and Rallying Cry seem to fit the spell slots fine.  So it's a question of choosing 4 creatures from 11.

We want a couple of big guys I would think, as much as I hate them.

I like Centaur Lookout, Dreamriver Boa, Arena Champion, Bearback Rider (a lot), Centaur Nullifier, Brawling Spider.  But they are all the small guys.

Towerfall Witness seems like a definite cut despite having one of the best names.

I'm not a super fan of Moldblood Cyclops, Timorous Wurm, Rambunctious Cyclops or Arctotheir Dynast excite me but we probably need to include 1 or 2 of them for G beef.

In colorless we are 1 short.  I think everyone likes Exile Camp and Tower Relic.  The others the jury is out on.

Thoughts?  Can we do some retiring of any I mentioned above as not making the cut for me?

[Kieran Symington]

Cut Towerfall Witness since he doesn't do much. Out of the others:

Deepwater Loon is fine to go out. I quite like Ripple Seer because he lets you chain Portents (as he costs 0 to Portent himself). But he's so similar to Scrypulse that surely only one of those can stay. Maybe even giving Ripple Seer the Scry 4 from Scrypulse?

No problems with Envious Ghast, Subversion Priest and Rotting Messenger getting the cut. Dalgath Ghastcaller's ability might be better off on a flashback spell rather than as a creature because his Portent is a bit irrelevant.

Ransack the Shelves is cool and should definitely get the spell slot. Conjurer of Tomorrow never had his ability activated so should probably go even though he's amusing.

Centaur Lookout isn't great even after getting the ability changed. Rambunctious Cyclops is great and should totally stay. Otherwise, not really sure, but if Timorous Wurm gets the cut Lurking probably goes as well.

[Thomas David Baker]

We are definitely getting there.  169 cards in multiverse.  Desired total: 84 + 36 + 24 = 144.  1 colorless uncommon missing, 16 cards to cut.

[Simon O'Keeffe]

I've retired a few of the cards we spoke about last night, that also did not makes Tom's list above.

Black - I agree with your choices for black, pity to lose Subversion Priest, but perhaps he can be powered down and moved to common?

Blue - I retired Ripple Seer and Deepwater Loon, so we have 7 cards.

Red - This is really tough, as I like all the red cards. They do almost all support looting though, perhaps we need another card that is good for the aggro side of our red?

Green - My choices would be:

* Dreamriver Boa

* Arena Champion

* Centaur Nullifier

* Timorous Wurm

* Arctotheir Dynast

* Natural Instinct

Rallying cry is super unexciting, so I just cut it for a creature. Brawling Spider is gone, but we could just put his ability and stats on Timorous Wurm, or rather move the Lurking to the spider and save the slot

[Kieran Symington]

Having a lurking spider seems pretty cool! Plus Timorous Wurm is a bit too similar to the Cyclops with trample so I doubt anyone would be upset to lose him.

Agree that Red could use a more aggro card - though it might be better off as a common, moving something like Looting Charm into uncommon because it's so incredibly useful.

[Paul Hodgson]

+1 for lurking spider, maybe a 1/1 reach & deathtouch?

[Paul Hodgson]

and done, although I'm rubbish at costing it right

[Thomas David Baker]

I do like Subversion Priest but I wondered if he overlapped with Embryo Thief and managed to make myself OK with it.

[Kieran Symington]

I think Green needs more Portent guys. There are currently 3 in total across the whole colour, while it has 7 creatures with Foresight! As it stands the payoff for having Foresight is mostly granting abilities to Cyclopes rather than getting more creatures. Sadly, we may need to remove Lurking from the set completely (except for Evervine because he's awesome - he can just have a non-keyworded ability), cut a couple of Foresight creatures and add a few more Portent guys throughout the rarities.

[Thomas David Baker]

Sounds like an OK plan to me.

I like Foresight being separate from things that benefit from Foresight so that you have something to assemble in draft.

[Simon O'Keeffe]

Yeah, I kind of think of green as portent for permanents, and blue as portent for spells, but I think it has worked out the opposite!

I like lurking, but am not opposed at all to retiring it to improve portent