You Make the Set 5

[Thomas David Baker]

We are doing this in our Multiverse app:

http://mv.bluebones.net/

(Old shared Google spreadsheet for this is here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ag7TtjWsLhYkdHBBUHF4RG... )

Channel Fireball just did Top 8 Mechanics:

* Retrace

* Dredge

* Landfall (not for attacking like Steppe Lynx - Grazing Gladehart and Roil Elemental style)

* Scry

* Flashback

* Kicker

* Flying

* Cycling

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiNNg5aj-xo

I wonder if we could use that, or some of that, as the basis of You Make the Set 5.  I know that some of you were keen on Landfall.

Not sure when we would play it out but some time in late May probably?

[Kieran Symington]

I've been thinking about the uncommons as well, and I think we're going the wrong way by trying to fit what we have into some sort of design skeleton - there just aren't enough uncommons to do that without missing all the awesome stuff. I think instead of fitting things in because of what they are, we should be looking at what they do in combination with other colours and what themes we want to support in drafts, then keep the cards that fit the best into multiple archetypes. So if we look at Black, for example:

Black/White: Lifegain and paying life for efects. Wants something that either gains life or trades life for advantage. Possible cards - Abortionist, Corrupt Seer, Subversion Priest, Tomb Whispers, Rotting Messenger, Take Down.

Black/Blue: Top card manipulation. Wants ways to move the top card around and Portent cards. Possible cards - Abortionist, Corrupt Seer, Vault Prophet.

Black/Red: Self milling and looting plus graveyard interaction. Wants things that care about the graveyard - both being put there and what is in there. Possible cards - Abortionist, Great Tower Bat, Brain Feaster, Dalgath Ghastcaller, Rotting Messenger, Tomb Whispers, Take Down, Vituperation of Flesh. This is also effectively the list for a B/x deck since heavy black decks of any sort will want the graveyard and mill interactions.

Black/Green: Removing non-creatures from the top to pump Cyclopes. Wants ways to control the top card when it isn't a creature. Possible cards - Corrupt Seer, Vault Prophet.

So when we look at the set this way, Abortionist is absolutely nailed-on for inclusion because it fits well into nearly every archetype. After that, either Corrupt Seer or Vault Prophet fits the secondary library-interaction slot. Tomb Whispers or Rotting Messenger are competing for a slot in the cards-for-life department. Take Down is pretty much an auto-include for a removal spell that has upside in certain archetypes. That leaves two slots that should go to awesome cards. Vituperation of Flesh is the bomby uncommon for the graveyard deck, which leaves one space for something cool like Great Tower Bat or Mirror zombie. Thoughts?

[Kieran Symington]

Going to go ahead and try Blue as well since it's the awkward one:

BLUE/x: Portent. Wants ways to get Foresight and Portent cards it can cast from off the top. Possible Cards - Portentious Shrike, Deepwater Loon, Impossible Horror, Deepwater Teachings, Spellslinging Augur, Scrypulse, Inspirationist.

Blue/White: Not much synergy, but fliers is always an archetype. Wants efficient and/or big fliers. Possible cards - Portentious Shrike, Deepwater Loon, Impossible Horror, Inspirationist.

Blue/Black: Top card manipulation. Wants ways to move the top card around and Portent cards. Possible Cards - Poretntious Shrike, Impossible Horror, Deepwater Teachings, Ripple Seer, Spellslinging Augur, Scrypulse, Insirationist.

Blue/Red: Looting. Wants mostly draw effects with some scry and/or Portent. Possible cards - Spellslinging Augur.

Blue/Green: PORTENT. Wants mostly amazing Portent cards and ways to set up the top of the library. Possbile cards - Portentious Shrike, Impossible Horror, Deepwater Loon, Scrypulse, Inspirationist, Deepwater Teachings.

Well that isn't very helpful at all. The same cards go into basically every deck because blue has nothing outside of Portent, Scry and Fliers! Most of the options are also pretty similar with two Portent Fliers and two Scry effects. We need to work on Blue.

[Simon O'Keeffe]

Kieran I like what you've done, not too dissimilar to my skeleton approach with the Major/Minor themes but does away with the hassle of squashing cards into slots. The only drawback is that we are basically just taking existing cards and seeing which ones fit best, where sometimes a new card or change to a card might be needed to really address the requirements.

I'll take a stab at red:

RED/x: Looting. Wants discard outlets, and ways to profit from discarding (madness, flashback, graveyard triggers, draw/discard triggers). Needs ways to either retain card parity while discarding. Also needs ways to do damage (burn, aggro, triggers tied to draw/discard). Possible cards - EMPTY THE LIBRARIES, RAID THE LIBRARY, DISDAINFUL RESEARCH, RANSACK THE SHELVES, BURN THE LIBRARY, LOOTER ELDER, ECHO OF THE PHOENIX

Red/White: Not much synergy, purely based on whether SOULSTOKING remains or not

Red/Blue: Combo. Wants draw/discard effects, ways to regain cards after discarding, ways to search for engine cards. Also wants ways to interact with portent. Possible cards - EMPTY THE LIBRARIES, RAID THE LIBRARY, DISDAINFUL RESEARCH, RANSACK THE SHELVES, BURN THE LIBRARY, LOOTER ELDER, CONJURER OF TOMORROW

Red/Black: Ways to put cards in graveyard and graveyard interaction. Possible cards - RAID THE LIBRARY, DISDAINFUL RESEARCH, RANSACK THE SHELVES, BURN THE LIBRARY, LOOTER ELDER, ECHO OF THE PHOENIX

Red/Green: Removing non-creatures from top of library, controlled looting. Also wants removal and good aggressive creatures Possible cards - GOBLIN ARCHER, CHARM-CLAD BRUTE, LOOTER ELDER/RAID THE LIBRARY?

[Kieran Symington]

Blue is causing problems, but I've been thinking of a possible solution and that's to make Blue the colour of non-creature Portent and Green the colour of permanents with Portent (mostly because while doing the breakdown I noticed the Blue/Green deck didn't really want Spellslinging Augur but he's amazing in Blue/Black). If we change a few blue cards so that they have effects based on either top card being a spell or triggers when spells get cast from the library it could have a totally different flavour to green and wouldn't synergise that well even though they share the same enablers. Portentious Shrike could colour-shift into green (getting Intimidate instead of flying) and we could bring back Auspice (Portent spells go back on top when you Portent another spell). So green becomes what is now blue and blue goes off at a totally different angle. What do you reckon?

[Paul Hodgson]

Auspice goes really well with UB and UR, so thumbs up - just need to make sure they're small enough effects to not be dominating

[Kieran Symington]

We really need to sort out blue (slightly) and green (majorly) now. The uncommons really should sort themselves out once we have those two colours worked out and we have all the commons in place. Really need more testing/real life discussion to get everything fixed, though. Internet discussion is useless for these important decisions!

[Kieran Symington]

So, with all the new green stuff since last time, I thought I'd take a stab at the green commons again (this month has been suspiciously slow at work!). So here are my current favorite green commons

CG01 - creature, small, mana production DREAMSMITH - green pretty much always wants a mana elf. The second ability isn't too likely to hit but will be a nice bonus when it does.

CG02 - creature, small, search CENTAUR PRECEPTOR - this guy is awesome. Early on hits your next guy and later finds a Portent creature or lets you cast the Lurkers.

CG03 - creature, small, lurking LURKING CYCLOPS - when you lurk it it's a bear that basically draws a card. Pretty good but never likely to be broken.

CG04 - creature, small/medium, intimidate DREADGLADE HOWLER - green needs a 3-drop with Portent for Preceptor to fetch up and some evasion at common.

CG05 - creature, medium, reach, foresight MIND’S EYE BOWMAN - reasonable curve guy, gives Foresight and blocks most fliers, though with the constant fear that you'll hit multiple lands and lose your flying defense!

CG06 - creature, medium, foresight, vigilance CYCLOPS SENTRY - fine as a 4-drop that gets you foresight and sometimes has vigilance.

CG07 - creature, medium, reach, flying destruction BRAWLING SPIDER - awesome value guy. Probably should be an uncommon.

CG08 - creature, medium/large, trample BLUNDERING CYCLOPS - another curve guy with foresight and occasional 'evasion'.

CG09 - creature, large, trample ENGORGED MURLODONT - compulsory green big guy who makes a good counter to white decks.

CG10 - enchantment - aura, pt boosting PRUDENT ADAPTATION - dodges the main problem of auras by not costing a card when you Portent it and makes anything a real threat.

CG11 - instant, combat trick HEROIC END - probably always costs you the creature as well but it lets you trade up and helps green work better with White.

CG12 - instant, flying destruction BLOODVINE'S THORNS - more common flier removal and more lifegain for G/W decks.

CG13 - sorcery, enchantment/artifact destruction SIMPLE OFFERING - necessary hate card and even more lifegain!

CG14 –land search RUIN CULTIVATOR / CAREFUL CULTIVATION - one of these is necessary depending on whether we want a cheaper spell version or a creature for synergy with the rest of the green cards.

So two things that came up when going through the green cards were a lack of creatures with Portent and too much flying hate. I figure both can be solved by Brawling Spider moving to uncommon (because it's really good) and being replaced with another Portent guy to help push that a bit.

[Paul Hodgson]

looks good, spidew should definitely go up to U. Think we need another random 4/4 or 4/3 or 3/4 to fill the curve. 

[Simon O'Keeffe]

Maybe just a Nettle Swine with Portent?

Might also give it trample if top card is revealed and a creature?

[Simon O'Keeffe]

Hey guys, just dropping a note to say I have not forgotten this, just work has been mental last week and this week!

[Kieran Symington]

I've had the opposite problem. I have nothing to do right now at work so I have to keep restraining myself from putting new cards in! I've already made way too much stuff recently.

Baker has no excuse for not doing anything other than sheer laziness. Everyone knows he works from home - which is the equivalent of not having to work at all.

[Kieran Symington]

In fact I'm so free I'm going to do another common review. Hopefully we now have enough to fill all the slots there.