Cube Masters Series | Building The Cube | White

[wv]

Philosophy of White

White should offer a powerful evasive foundation for aggressive decks, while providing strong finishers, sweepers and spot removal for midrange and control decks.

Strengths

Early drops
Evasion
Board Sweepers

Weaknesses

Low toughness creatures
High mana costs of best cards
Enchantment Removal

UPDATED 22 FEBRUARY

White (47)

 

CC0

Windbrisk Heights

CC1

Mother of Runes

Isamaru, Hound of Konda

Student of Warfare

Elite Vanguard

Savannah Lions

Steppe Lynx

Swords to Plowshares

Land Tax

Path to Exile

CC2

Knight of Meadowgrain

Soltari Priest

Soltari Monk

Serra Avenger

Wall of Omens

Kor Skyfisher

Stoneforge Mystic

Leonin Relic-Warder

Accorder Paladin

Balance

Journey to Nowhere

Disenchant

CC3

Exalted Angel

Soltari Champion

Aven Mindscensor

Mirror Entity

Paladin en-Vec

Mirran Crusader

Flickerwhisp

Oblivion ring

Arrest

CC4

Ranger of Eos

Hero of Bladehold

Kor Sanctifiers

Armageddon

Elspeth, Knight Errant

Wrath of God

Day of Judgement

CC5

Baneslayer Angel

Reveillark

Cloudgoat Ranger

Karmic Guide

Gideon Jura

Akroma's Vengence

CC6+

Yosei, the Morning star

Sun Titan

Pristine Angel

CCX

Decree of Justice

[Paul Hodgson]

You've got a good WW theme going there, one set of cards I'm not completely sold on are the shadow dudes though. They are effectively unblockable guys, unless you stick shadow into some of the other colours - the dauthi guys could be slotted into Black and looter il-Kor into Blue. However this will skew the cube along a shadow/non-shadow axis. In the interest of balance, perhaps look to replace them with other WW staples (and maybe strengthen the Knight theme?) such as Knight of the White Orchid, Order of Leitbur, Honor of the Pure etc?

This will eliminate the need to squeeze shadow into other colours, allowing for more interactivity - white's evasion is usually based around smaller flyers and difficult blocking decisions (first strike), rather than de-facto unblockability.

[Simon O'Keeffe]

Ah White, the hardest of the cube colours to balance I think.

 

I see you have gone for the two drop aggro mix a little bit. This is fine, but I really think you need a bit more support for this archetype to be any fun and competitive. Making a bunch of 2 power guys for WW is not going to beat many decks, and is very hard on your mana if you are not mono or just splashing.

 

This archetype usually needs to have something like Honor the Pure and Crusade to help but these are so narrow that they are very hard to fit in a tight cube list like this.

 

The one card I really think is missing is Spectral Procession. If you are going the white weenie deck then it is three evasive monsters, and works with Glorious Anthem style effects if they get added.

 

Regarding the control stuff, maybe only Akroma is missing, but she is more of a combo card for reanimator or Tooth and Nail style decks, so will have to see those colours first.

[wv]

@Glen

Indeed white is the hardest colour to balance, no question! There are only 3 'WW' costed creatures in the two drop slots, so picking up white creatures doesn't necessarily cement you into WW - on the contrary, the large number of evasive creatures available in white fit perfectly into the mix for agro, midrange and control strategies.

 

I agree that weenie 2-drops kind of suck in cube - but when you can't block them effectively, suddenly they become excellent early picks for white drafters.

 

I'm going back and forth on Spectral Procession like it's nobody's business. The thing about a WWW costed card is that it is EXTREMELY narrow, and only really good in a mono-white strategy.

 

As for Akroma - this has been one of the most difficult cuts for me, as she's kind of a pet card from way back when. The reality is, she costs a crapload of mana and is extremely narrow. In my experience, she is usually a dead pick, and the reality is, there are creatures out there now that are BETTER than Akroma (still can't really believe it myself).

 

@Paul

The key word here is 'evasion' rather than 'white weenie'. The thing about cube is, the removal is so powerful it makes most 'normal' 2 drop creatures redundant. You need an extremely powerful 2 drop (unconditionally  unblockable/flying) to justify it's slot in the cube.

 

Adding more WW costed creatures actually narrows white even further - KotWo is essentially a dead card outside of a mono-white/white-with-tiny-splash deck. Honor of the Pure is far too redundant outside of a WW strategy.

 

I can however see replacing Accordin Paladin with another flyer/evasion creature (like Leonin Skyhunter for eg) to further support White's plan of evasion.

The shadow creatures serve two major roles (which justifies their slots):

1] Agro unblockable 2 drops

2] Midrange/Control finishers (think Creeping Tarpit)

 

Shadow is white's 'Counterspell' - everyone hates it but it's insanely powerful! And we wouldn't go cutting Counterspells from blue now would we? :)

[Thom Richardson]

Would Ravages of War be too good for aggro?

[Glenn Goldsworthy]

hero of bladehold, that guy helps the ww deck dish the beats

Armaggeddon is always saucy

balance

 

these are just of the top of my head

[Tom Reeve]

Not really a big fan of White Weenie as a cube archetype. A WW deck that picked up pretty much every card it wants from this list would still not actually be that great, as it would still be soft to both mass removal and bigger midrange creatures. I would recommend pushing the creature base more towards the kinds of creatures that would fit into non-WW decks like Zoo, Boros, Fish - that is, more creatures that are effective and have an impact on their own past being 'weenie horde drop number 3'. Would also recommend that if you do stick with a more WW approach you include Cataclysm and maybe Ravages, and possibly Ajani Goldmane over Elspeth Tirel (including Elspeth Tirel in the same deck as Elspeth Knight-Errant is awkward mainly because Elspeth KE is a) just better and b) doesn't tend to die, so you're more likely to have a legend-rule problem sitting in your hand.) I do like white control/midrange with cards like Decree, Eternal Dragon, various Angels and Wraths (personal preference.)

[wv]

What more impactful white creatures would you recommend?

 

I'm not entirely happy with the 2/1 flyers for example, as they're just... meh. They do their jobs well though. I do however like the Shadow creatures because they do have impact passed just being 2 power 2 drops.  Also, most of these creatures fit perfectly well into Boros/Naya decks, and not necessarily just a mono-white build.

 

The problem with making white a control/midrange colour is that aggro is then only available in green and red. The purpose of this cube is Balance, and to allow access to aggro, midrange and control strategies. I'm trying to steer away from just midrange/control mirror matches.

Tom Reeve said:

Not really a big fan of White Weenie as a cube archetype. A WW deck that picked up pretty much every card it wants from this list would still not actually be that great, as it would still be soft to both mass removal and bigger midrange creatures. I would recommend pushing the creature base more towards the kinds of creatures that would fit into non-WW decks like Zoo, Boros, Fish - that is, more creatures that are effective and have an impact on their own past being 'weenie horde drop number 3'. Would also recommend that if you do stick with a more WW approach you include Cataclysm and maybe Ravages, and possibly Ajani Goldmane over Elspeth Tirel (including Elspeth Tirel in the same deck as Elspeth Knight-Errant is awkward mainly because Elspeth KE is a) just better and b) doesn't tend to die, so you're more likely to have a legend-rule problem sitting in your hand.) I do like white control/midrange with cards like Decree, Eternal Dragon, various Angels and Wraths (personal preference.)

[Tom Reeve]

I don't have a problem with encouraging a diverse range of archetypes, but you need to be careful not to encourage an archetype for the sake of diversity that's going to end up sucking in practice.

 

One way you could take a more conventional WW approach is to include a more explicit equipment or minor tribal subtheme - things like Auriok Steelshaper, Preeminent Captain etc. In general I'm not a fan of cards like Soltari Trooper, Mistral Charger etc that are just dorks that turn sideways and hopefully race (just because white isn't actually all that good at pure aggro, what with smaller creatures with keyword abilities at the 2-3cc slot and no reach.)

 

Protection is good, disruptive abilities are good, power > casting cost is good (somewhat rare for white at costs above 1, Accorder Paladin and Sigiled Paladin get there.) Some other cards to throw out there; Auriok Champion, Kami of Ancient Law, Jotun Grunt, Aven Mindcensor, Kataki, Kor Firewalker, Leonin Arbiter, Leonin Relic-Warder, Samurai of the Pale Curtain, Serra Avenger, Spectral Lynx, White Shield Crusader, Whipcorder, War Priest of Thune

[Thea Steele]

I think the Shadow guys are necessary if you want to push WW. It's true that they aren't interactive, but the drawback is real if you run into a mirror.

 

It's also not quite fair to say that the best cards in this section won't really make a good deck. Most cube decks are 2+ colors, so I'd take a more holistic look at it- how do these creatures look when paired with the right reds cards? Black cards? In my experience, white aggro in the cube needs some additional disruption and reach, which is why you're often looking to red and black for some combination of burn, additional LD, and discard.

 

As far as specific cards:

 

8.5 is one of my favorite cards, but might not pull his weight in a cube this size, especially if white is to be a primarily aggro color. Remember that he's really something like a five-drop.

 

Paladin en-Vec probably deserves a spot.

 

I suspect there is something more interesting for midrange/control than Elspeth Tirel. Maybe Karmic Guide, especially if you end up running ninjas, other reanimation, Erratic Portal- you've already got the Reveillark :)

 

You might think about Austere Command over Akroma's Vengeance. They're obviously different cards, but Austere can sometimes be unbelievably one-sided.

 

My feeling is that Pristine has been outclassed in a cube this size. Maybe something like Sacred Mesa instead, which fits into a WW/Anthem theme as well as control?

 

This is a really cool project! Hope you guys do a big write-up of the event.

[Paul Hodgson]

I fully expect Dan to be covering this for SCG ;)

Thea Steele said:

This is a really cool project! Hope you guys do a big write-up of the event.

[wv]

How do people feel about these possible changes to white?

IN

Serra Avenger

Leonin Relic-Warder

Spectral Lynx

Mystic Crusader

Sacrid Mesa

Aven Mindcensor 

Paladin en-Vec 

Karmic guide

 

OUT

Mistral Strider

Stormfront Pegasus

Soltari Trooper

Soltari Monk

Soltari Priest

8.5 tails

Elspeth tirel

Pristine Angel

 

 

?

[Tom Reeve]

I don't have a problem with Monk/Priest (I should perhaps have been clearer about my positive opinion of protection dorks, and after seeing that you're including a bunch of Swords they're even better.) 8.5tails is sadly I think just too mana intensive, although I do like Pristine Angel quite a lot. Of the changes you've suggested I'd probably leave Monk/Priest in over Spectral Lynx and Mystic Crusader (threshold is just sooo unlikely to happen sadly.) Mesa vs Pristine Angel is pretty much a question of what direction you want your white control decks to go (reactive vs tap-out.) Karmic Guide is totally sweet and I am entirely behind its inclusion.