What do you think of this?

[Gary Lynch]

I have a 1k tournament on Sunday and want to try out a new brew.

 

Tell me what you guys think of this.

 

3 Island
3 Mountain
3 Plains
3 Shimmering Grotto
2 Terramorphic Expance
4 Seachrome Coast
4 Sulfur Falls
4 Clifftop Retreat

3 Bonfire of the Damned
3 Entreat the Angels
3 Terminus
2 Gideon Jura
1 Karn Liberated
3 Mana Leak
2 Negate
4 Think Twice
3 Faithless Looting
2 Pristine Talisman
2 Red Suns Zenith
2 Slagstorm
1 Geistflame
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Noxious Revival

Sideboard:

3 Dissipate
2 Volition Reigns
3 Celestial Purge
3 Timley Reinforcements
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Ray of Revelation

 

[Gary Lynch]

I would assume it beats just about any aggro deck and I think it can beat ramp too.

The idea is to have a game plan.

How does ramp deal with a bunch of 4/4 fliers?

James Mills said:

Ok what established deck does this one beat? I can think of about one or two.

Dan Barrett said:

Mills, no one is playing UB control, except you. Points on Delver may be fair though.

What decks do people play in your area, Gary?

[Gary Lynch]

It could be, probably something to test.

I worry about the random discard.

With Looting I can discard cards I dont need. You can also use it to discard a miracle card then use Revival to put it back on top so you can cast it next turn.

Philip Dickinson said:

isn't Desperate Ravings probably better than Faithless Looting?

[James Mills]

UB control just mills (lol) you out. You can try to get cute with a noxious revival/miracle card but the chances are they will have a counter for it because they aren't using their resources doing anything else. The cheapest threat you have is Gideon at 5 mana. That is a lot oftime for a control deck to sculpt their hand with think twice and Alchemy.

[James Mills]

I think your deck would be better against aggro if you replaced terminus with Day of Judgement. It so much more reliable.

 

[Kieran Symington]

How do the Miracles work in practise? The big thing I can see with them - especially things like Bonfire and Terminus - is that since they're better in your deck than they are in your hand they don't help you plan your opening turns very well with a control deck. If you have Terminus in your opening hand, for example, you're unlikely to cast it before dying to an agressive deck, so it becomes a virtual mulligan whilst a Day of Judgment in your opening hand means you just need to survive until turn four and you can plan your first few turns accordingly. Having no miracles in your opening hand is good since you can get a massively good effect at a discount, but it means you can't rely on having a wrath effect when you really need it. So if you keep an opening hand with a miracle you'll probably never cast it, and if you keep an opening hand with no miracles you'll probably never draw them. Admittedly, the mechanic is really new so I have no practical experience of this (nor am I known for my ability to make competetive decks), but it seems like the defensive miracles are massively high variance and not something I'd want to rely on.

[James Mills]

I would probably cut U altogether and lower the curve.

 

4 pillar of flames

2 whipflare

4 slagstorm

4 DOJ

2 terminus

 

Would be a good start if you are really looking to hose aggressive stratagies.

 

Again the only problem with these midrange decks is they lost to delver and decks with counterspells.

[Tom Reeve]

Engage rambling mode: Main problems I can see are getting greedy with both mana and Miracles. At the moment you have 9 Miracles, and the only way to encourage them to the top of your deck is a couple of copies of Noxious Revival. You also have only 11 white sources plus Grotto and Expanse to support the triple W on Entreat. Given that, it's possible that Pristine Talisman needs to be Vessel of Endless Rest just to support your colours. The problem you're likely to have with Delver is that if they have counters, you have relatively few spells they actually need to counter, backed up by a bunch of filtering that is just costing you life while they hit you. You're not running Ponder, which seems like the strongest way to set up Miracles in Standard.

I haven't started building anything for Standard yet, but a UW shell with Entreat, some mix of Day/Terminus, Gideon, maybe Tamiyo, Pristine or Vessel, Ponder seems like it could have some potential. I don't know if it ends up straight UW, Esper or WUR. The main potential issues for UW seem like making sure you have game against Inkmoth Nexus and UB while not compromising the fight against Delver.

I guess another option is to go straight UR, add Ponder/Lighthouse, and just go all-in on Thunderous Wrath and Bonfire in a counterburnish control deck that will often kill by just going to the face over a couple of turns.

[Dan Barrett]

I'm more saying that Mana Leak isn't that great right now in general, hence a lot of decks are already cutting it. 

What Reeve said, also!

Gary Lynch said:

Perhaps could cut 1 or 2 counter spells. Im not buying the myth that Cavern of Souls is gonna ruin counters, still plenty of stuff to counter.

Whipflare may be better than slagstorn, easier on the mana. I think the reason I picked Slagstorm as it can hit players/planeswalkers as well but not sure how relevant that is.

Dan Barrett said:

I'd cut some of the permission and play some number of Pillar of Flame and possibly Whipflare over/as well as Slagstorm. Or you could cut all the permission and have some Timely Reinforcements main?

[Tom Reeve]

Specifically, I think Noxious Revival is kind of a trap for Standard, because there are a) a lot of Thought Scours around that will make you very unhappy at almost zero cost to your opponent and b) some proportions of both graveyard removal (mainly Surgical Extraction) and countermagic (that punishes you for investing an extra card in getting your Miracle onto the stack cheaply.)

[Gary Lynch]

Some good points raised there.

Tom is right, probably do need some more white sources in the deck.

Also good point on the Thought Scour. I thought it was a sorcery for some reason. Perhaps just have Noxious Revival in the side for against non control decks?

Its tough because I want to build a deck that doesnt lose to aggro but can beat control as well.

James, you keep talking about UB control but there is probably about 1 guy who plays that here. Most of the good players seem to be ruining a 5 colour control deck that I just cant beat with my ramp deck.

Also you seem to be convinced this will lose to Delver but im not so sure. How many counters is Delver running?

Did you notice that you can Think Twice on your opponents turn and play a miracle?

I actually picked Terminus over Day of Judgement becasue of the casting cost. A 4 mana Wrath against delver will get countered. For 1 mana you can afford to pay for the leak. The other plan is to just keep casting things they have to counter. Im pretty sure any miracle off the top is a must counter threat for them.

Idealy I would just play Esper Superfriends with Temporal Mastery as that seems like a beating for most decks, but I dont have the cards for that and it requires too much more spending.

I really want to find something that works well and am bored of casting Primeval Titan.

[Gary Lynch]

Also to Kieran.

Having a miracle card in your oppener is obviously going to suck but thats kinda what looting is for.

Against aggro if you have a Terminus in hand you still have 7 Sweeper effects left in the deck, with the card draw as well that should be plently.

Who doesnt want to Think Twice in their opponents combat phase and Wrath them?

[James Mills]

I am finding the miracle cards to be skill testers, they will fit in decks but they will be support cards not finishers. I would like to live in magical Christmas land where all my think twices hit miracle cards but in reality the maths are against you. It seems like if you hit your miracle card at the right time then you stand a good chance of taking over the game, if not then the deck will be too slow.  also are you going to wait so you can think twice with mana up? and you seem to be forgetting that by turn 4 ramp has six mana and usually a titan. 

I wouldn't take an untested deck to tournament where you can win 1K