New Play or Draw Rule Debuts at Amsterdam

[Thom Richardson]

http://thestarkingtonpost.com/articles/-/New_Play_or_Draw_Rule_Debu...!

"For the first game of each match in the Top 8, the player that finished higher in the Swiss rounds chooses either to play first or to
play second.  For subsequent games in each Top 8 match, the usual
Play/Draw rule applies (loser of the previous game decides whether to
play first in the next game.)"

If this does what Wizards want at the PT, i'm guessing cutting the number of IDs in the later rounds, then it will presumably be implamented at the lower levels.

Obviously winning the Die roll is huge,  so how big an effect is this going to have?

What do you all think of this?

[Amar Dattani]

This is awesome and rewards doing better in the Swiss - I think this should also be implemented in all events with a top 8 after Amsterdam.

It will make for exciting Swiss rounds in the later stages of a tournament when people who would normally ID play for a higher Swiss standing.

[Thom Richardson]

i really like it too. think its a pretty elegant solution for getting people to play out the last matches.

also if everyone isn't IDing the last round (or 2) doesnt it mean that some people will get in with worse recods than usual? i.e. you drop at 0-3 not 0-2 in a ptq.

[Dan Barrett]

Given the chance to guarantee myself a top-8 slot, i'm gonna ID.

Especially considering I lose the die roll 60% of the time anyways.


Also: how brutal is this in Vintage!

[Amar Dattani]

Basically the people that NEED an ID to make top8 will both ID but the players that are both guaranteed a top 8 space regardless of if they win or lose will play - this may mean that if they are paired against someone who needs an ID they will be forced to play - which I think is better for the tournament - although this will mean some people who would have made top8 under the old system will now lose out - giving other players a chance.

Agreed - In Vintage and legacy placing high in the swiss standings will be very important.
This also enhances the 'pro player' reputation as those with 3 byes at GPs will place higher than those without (unless tiebreakers are blanked on day 2 due to a split tournament). This will mean that Pros are more likely to play first and win in the top 8 - this is an extension of how DCI Reporter pairs differently in the final round based on tiebreakers rather than randomly.

Dan Barrett said:

Given the chance to guarantee myself a top-8 slot, i'm gonna ID.
Especially considering I lose the die roll 60% of the time anyways.
Also: how brutal is this in Vintage!

[Daniel Royde]

How much of an advantage do you think the die roll is (in a given format)? There certainly can be an advantage, but I don't believe that it's that significant most of the time. The advantage is reduced in 5 game matches.

Also, there's already a reward for doing better in the swiss at the PT- it's the tiebreaker for 3rd/4th and 5-8th.
That's worth between $500 and $2000

If people need to ID to make top8, they will. If they don't need to ID, then it doesn't really matter what they do since it won't impact who else can make top 8 (or am I wrong with that?).

I don't see how this would get rid of the "problem" of IDing.



Amar Dattani said:

This is awesome and rewards doing better in the Swiss - I think this should also be implemented in all events with a top 8 after Amsterdam.

It will make for exciting Swiss rounds in the later stages of a tournament when people who would normally ID play for a higher Swiss standing.

[Amar Dattani]

It impact those players who are paired against someone that doesn't need to ID to top 8, but hey need an ID or a win. Under the old system is it likely an ID would have taken place anyway, but under the new system the player that gets into top 8 regardless will definitely play - and potentially knock out the player who needs an ID or win.

Daniel Royde said:

How much of an advantage do you think the die roll is (in a given format)? There certainly can be an advantage, but I don't believe that it's that significant most of the time. The advantage is reduced in 5 game matches.
Also, there's already a reward for doing better in the swiss at the PT- it's the tiebreaker for 3rd/4th and 5-8th. That's worth between $500 and $2000

If people need to ID to make top8, they will. If they don't need to ID, then it doesn't really matter what they do since it won't impact who else can make top 8 (or am I wrong with that?).

I don't see how this would get rid of the "problem" of IDing.



Amar Dattani said:

This is awesome and rewards doing better in the Swiss - I think this should also be implemented in all events with a top 8 after Amsterdam.

It will make for exciting Swiss rounds in the later stages of a tournament when people who would normally ID play for a higher Swiss standing.

[Daniel Royde]

There was an incentive to play in this situation before- boosters. If you're playing against someone you know, you ID/scoop them in.

If it's someone you don't know then there's no reason to ID anyway. If you do, you might knock someone you do know into 9th place. The auto winning a die roll seems less significant than this to me.

So I disagree with you that this should change anyone's behaviour.



Amar Dattani said:

It impact those players who are paired against someone that doesn't need to ID to top 8, but hey need an ID or a win. Under the old system is it likely an ID would have taken place anyway, but under the new system the player that gets into top 8 regardless will definitely play - and potentially knock out the player who needs an ID or win.

Daniel Royde said:

How much of an advantage do you think the die roll is (in a given format)? There certainly can be an advantage, but I don't believe that it's that significant most of the time. The advantage is reduced in 5 game matches.
Also, there's already a reward for doing better in the swiss at the PT- it's the tiebreaker for 3rd/4th and 5-8th. That's worth between $500 and $2000

If people need to ID to make top8, they will. If they don't need to ID, then it doesn't really matter what they do since it won't impact who else can make top 8 (or am I wrong with that?).

I don't see how this would get rid of the "problem" of IDing.



Amar Dattani said:

This is awesome and rewards doing better in the Swiss - I think this should also be implemented in all events with a top 8 after Amsterdam.

It will make for exciting Swiss rounds in the later stages of a tournament when people who would normally ID play for a higher Swiss standing.

[Amar Dattani]

I agree with your logic Dan but in reality I've found that if people can ID they do - boosters normally don't factor into the decision, normally you would rather have a break for the final round before you start the top 8.
Getting a friend into top 8 is sometimes relevant - I agree.

Anyway I guess we will not know for sure until it is rolled out - it will be interesting to see how or if it influences decisions.