World Magic Cup Qualifiers

[Dark Sphere]

As some of you are already aware we will be hosting one of the World Magic Cup Qualifiers on Saturday 14th April. The format is standard constructed and full information can be found at http://www.darksphere.co.uk/events/WMCQ.php

Best wishes,

The Dark Sphere Team

[Glenn Goldsworthy]

I was actually going to make that point myself the cost of playing magic has basically doubled in the last couple of years, that boosters and entry let alone introducing new formats (modern is great and all) but has again increased the cost of playing.

I for 1 can't spend £50 a month on a game with little to no return, the game itself is fun but in a time where peoples disposable income is much lower than it has been for years, the drastic increase in the cost to play magic, people will obviously decide against it.

 

[Paul Hodgson]

The potential for being rewarded for playing well is a valid factor for deciding whether to play in a tournament or not - you're stumping up tournament fees for a reason. It *is* a simple ROI decision, however there are other factors involved like how much you expect to enjoy playing, the thrill of competition, playing the cards you've invested (time & money) in etc

Prize support is a sweetener on the deal for sure, otherwise we'd all just play commander/cube/casual/mental magic

[James Mills]

Actually the price for the PTQ last weekend was 20 quid. Four times as much as my first constructed PTQ!

Glenn Goldsworthy said:

I was actually going to make that point myself the cost of playing magic has basically doubled in the last couple of years, that boosters and entry let alone introducing new formats (modern is great and all) but has again increased the cost of playing.

I for 1 can't spend £50 a month on a game with little to no return, the game itself is fun but in a time where peoples disposable income is much lower than it has been for years, the drastic increase in the cost to play magic, people will obviously decide against it.

 

[Paul Hodgson]

At least there wasn't a trader on site to take even more money from me!

James Mills said:

Actually the price for the PTQ last weekend was 20 quid. Four times as much as my first constructed PTQ!

Glenn Goldsworthy said:

I was actually going to make that point myself the cost of playing magic has basically doubled in the last couple of years, that boosters and entry let alone introducing new formats (modern is great and all) but has again increased the cost of playing.

I for 1 can't spend £50 a month on a game with little to no return, the game itself is fun but in a time where peoples disposable income is much lower than it has been for years, the drastic increase in the cost to play magic, people will obviously decide against it.

 

[Josh Tovell]

Making comparisons between going to the cinema or playing a round of golf aren't accurate. I would completely agree if we were talking about kitchen table Magic, or a cube draft etc. But we're talking about tournaments, and those aren't wholly leisure activities. Tournaments mean competition, and vying for victory. You would hardly buy into a tournament and then leave if it were run badly, whereas that's a totally reasonable to do in a cinema. Inside, everyone playing a tournament wants to win, whether they think they're capable or not.

I don't dispute you can play in a tournament just for fun, but who really 0-3s five straight PTQs and claims they had fun? We all want to win, and all want to be recognised for it. Prizes are a way of recognising success, but when those prizes are outweighed by time and monetary investments, you hardly feel like a winner. Surely you'd be slightly happy about going 9-0 in a PTQ, but as Phil says, how would you then feel if you got nothing for having done so? Prizes are ways of demonstrating and recognising success not just to others, but also yourself.

When I was fourteen I remember telling my mum I'd 9-0d County Champs and won the whole thing, she was excited for me, but she didn't really understand what an achievement 9-0ing was. When I then went on to told her I'd won a £100 trophy, a £30 playmat and however many boosters, she understood just how well i'd done. If I'd of just won the £30 playmat, it would have diminished my achievement to myself and others. Suddenly, my buy-in of £20 and an entire Sunday seem to have been all in vein when not appropriately recognised. 

[Philip Dickinson]

when is dan just going to run that Win A Dog tournament cus that sounds like +infiniteEV, ugh

[Glenn Goldsworthy]

lets put this into some perspective I remember when a prerelease was £12, under 60 players and you got a box for 1st plus a couple of other bits, the last prerelease I played cost £30, i went 7-0 and got 12 boosters from a upwards of 70 person tourney. 

The other option for this would be to not play in any of the smaller tourneys and only concentrate your resources and efforts into going for the ones with flights as prizes.

[Crispin Bateman]

All this 'if music cost twice as much now I wouldn't go' argument just furthers my point: IF you don't want to pay to play, DON'T.

No one is forcing you to come to tournaments. If you enjoy the game, play casually for free, or pay the tournament fees to enjoy the variety of decks and more competitive feel. If you don't feel the tournament fees justify the enjoyment, then don't pay them and don't go to the tournaments.

Arguing that 'it's more expensive than when I was younger' is pathetic. Milk was 14p a pint when I was a kid, I can remember buying it in Co-Op with my Mum. Now it is more. Do I go on Milk forums and complain about the price of Milk? No. I choose to either pay the current price, or not buy milk. Simple.

Magic is more expensive now than it was, completely true. Venue cost has increased, booster cost has increased, support from Wizards has dropped, etc. All of these things lead to higher tournament entry fees for similar (if not smaller) prize support. This leaves you, as a player, with the choice of 'come at the new price' or 'don't come at the new price'. What do you think you achieve by moaning? Is it just because there's nothing better to do? In which case, by all means, do continue. Perhaps moaning about Magic is more fun to you than playing it. That's what it looks like from my perspective at least; like moaning is the new metagame.

If you don't like the tournaments, fees and all, prize structure and all, don't go. I personally don't like the structure Dark Sphere have announced for their upcoming Legacy event because I feel it requires a 100% bad-luck and mulligan free day to win anything, and I'm not up for that; so you know what - I'm not going. Simple. I had a quick conversation about it on another forum to see if it would be changed, it isn't being changed, so now I've shut up, and I make my choice not to go.

If the concerts I wanted to go to cost more than I believe I get out of them in terms of enjoyment, I don't go. If going to the cinema costs more than I believe it is worth, I don't go. If buying milk is too expensive, I don't buy milk, but in none of these examples would I bother to sit on a forum and moan about it.

Is there something I'm missing in the moaning-metagame. Does anyone want to explain to me the purpose of all the moaning? Is there a prize for 'best moaner', because I might get better ROI on my time on the forum if there's a prize.

[Philip Dickinson]

sorry crispin i thought that this discussion forum was a good place to discuss why i don't really go to magic tournaments any more :p

edit: also i love being antagonistic

[Philip Dickinson]

also aren't changes in the price of milk due to inflation rather than the milk authorities deciding to arbitrarily start charging more for less milk because they can?

[Dan Barrett]

I'm generally along the same lines as Crispin here, but the particular case of constructed PTQs quadrupling in price (if what I hear about them being a fiver back in 2002-3 is accurate) seems a little too much.

[Crispin Bateman]

Which is fine, Phil, but the problem becomes no one cares.

TOs don't care because if you don't come any more, you are no longer a relevant player. No one is going to raise prize structure or lower entry fee to suit you, because you are no longer the target market.

Players who are enjoying Magic don't care because they are enjoying Magic and have no interest in a negative rant from someone who doesn't share their point of view.

Other moaners don't care, because all they want to do is put their point forward, they don't really care about yours. :)