views on bertoncinigate?

[Philip Dickinson]

http://mixedknuts.wordpress.com/2011/12/12/unlocking-the-cheats-of-...

anyone have any particular opinions on this? sensible ones, that is.

[Thom Richardson]

investigation is ongoing, DCI are not exactly fast acting.

[Thomas David Baker]

> Didn't he have a proper cry about that afterwards to his mates when you were still clearly in earshot?

He bemoaned variance and claimed that the match had made him decide to give up Magic repeatedly and at length.  This was the following morning and he was talking to me as much as anyone.  I got a big laugh out of him by saying, "Oh Alex - do you know what you need?  Drugs."  We parted on good terms and chatted a couple of times at Worlds.  I did think I liked him, but now the internet propaganda machine makes me think I have instead fallen for the evil charms of a rapport-building con artist ;)

[James Mills]

I've seen some of the vids. They don't look good.

Not for me to judge though - the DCI will sort it out...

Eventually.

 

Also - lolz, they have taken his pic down from the SCG website.

[Philip Dickinson]

turtenwald's post on the recent scg statement is so good:

So either Alex is a cheater and the SCG judging staff has shown unparalleled incompetence for over two years, or he doesn't cheat and all 85 posters here actively encouraged a witch hunt ending in a ruined reputation. Both are pretty disgusting.

[Dan Barrett]

I don't think it's particularly "disgusting" to see something very fishy looking and want something to be done about it. Silence will not get cheats caught and punished, or make the community at large aware of these issues and know to be vigilant.

[Daniel Royde]

Some thoughts:

1)      Drew Levin shouldn’t have posted that article at all. At the very least not until after a penalty decision from the DCI.

2)      Judges need to act much faster. It should be reasonable to assume that if they’ve had this information for a while, and not acted on it, that they’re not going to, but because it takes so long for this sort of investigation to happen, we can’t.

3)      People shouldn’t jump to conclusions about this being intentional cheating. Alex plays more magic than pretty much anyone else (see pwps). There is a lot of video of him playing, since the SCG opens have a lot of video coverage.

I know that I have done things like this accidentally before. Sometimes you spot it as it happens, sometimes you realise after the game, sometimes no one notices. We don’t know how often that happens. Given how many basic errors most people make when playing magic, I suspect it happens quite a lot.

So what demonstrates that this is intentional?

Asking for a penalty to be downgraded- Plenty of people have gotten gamelosses for accumulated warnings (I should know!), so what’s wrong with trying to avoid that?

The number of examples of “cheating”- There are 6 examples in the article, over a period of time containing how many matches? I don’t know how prevalent mistakes like this are, so it’s hard to say that this is a lot.

[Tomas Sukaitis]

There are usually no simple downgrade paths available to a floor judge from a warning to a caution for the common errors like game rule violations. Why would you keep asking for a downgrade for missed triggers? How often have you done so or witnessed someone else in a tournament ask for one? If you only make one-two mistakes per tournament, that won't affect you in the long run. And that's the limit set by the policy. If you keep missing triggers, keep crossing the line, the upgrade exists to remind you to play more carefully. Asking for a downgrade is like asking the cop to let you off for speeding "just this once" when you fully know you will speed again. 

Further, the definition of a Caution includes that it takes mere moments to issue. If it's any longer than that, it should be upgraded into a Warning. If there was an infraction committed, and the player is asking for a downgrade, it already took more than a few momens. 

About the number of evidence - I'm fairly sure we could film/track quite a big number of people over several months of tournaments, and they wouldn't commit so many infractions of drawing extra cards, playing your SB cards game 1 and winning the game with it, lying about the game state, etc. 

[Dan Barrett]

There are those few incidents caught on camera, and then TONS of other things various players have witnessed, some of which are also a matter of DCI record. For instance last year Jeph Foster told me about a few things he saw Alex B do that were very suspect, but obviously we didn't think much of it at the time.

[Philip Dickinson]

"but my friends said that they totally heard someone tell them that they've seen him cheat!"

on some levels I hope that he has been cheating and that he gets away with it. the response from the community has been fucking atrocious. Sperling's CFB article today was excellent and well-written; sadly the majority of the playerbase is too eager to jump on the witch hunt.

there's a particularly hysterical comment on the SCG statement where some disgusting fuck compares his actions to theft:

This article says that you will remove players for theft. How is what he did not considered theft? He stole the biggest prize on the SCG Circuit.

there's another retard who says he should be "stripped of his prize" :

What is within Star City Games' control is the awarding of prize to Bertoncini. He is alleged to have earned a set of Power Nine and $10,000 on the back of cheating, and as the tournament organizer, you should retain the right to strip him of his prize if these allegations prove true. The Olympics and other bodies will strip athletes of prize if they're found to have cheated, so why should we not hold a similar standard for Magic?

what the fuck is this even trying to say? what are SCG meant to do, just stroll up and say "can we have our ten thousand dollars back?"

tl;dr: the reaction to this whole debacle has been monumentally dumb

[Dan Barrett]

Hating on witchhunts is the new hipster

[Simon O'Keeffe]

Well if getting hold of your winnings is still anything like it was back when I could actually play this game well enough to win cash prizes, it takes months, so there is a decent chance he doesn't actually have his $10k yet.

Philip Dickinson said:

there's another retard who says he should be "stripped of his prize" :

What is within Star City Games' control is the awarding of prize to Bertoncini. He is alleged to have earned a set of Power Nine and $10,000 on the back of cheating, and as the tournament organizer, you should retain the right to strip him of his prize if these allegations prove true. The Olympics and other bodies will strip athletes of prize if they're found to have cheated, so why should we not hold a similar standard for Magic?

what the fuck is this even trying to say? what are SCG meant to do, just stroll up and say "can we have our ten thousand dollars back?"

[Graham Theobalds]

Well players should be calling the judge on mistakes they make. Judges do have the option to downgrade on some infractions where a players calls the mistake on himself, before they have gained an advantage. Judges are there to help players not just there to penalise them. If you dont call the judge when you make a mistake a judge will evaluate the situation and make a decision on whether they think you are cheating or not. Remember a judge does not have to PROVE anything we are not in a court of law. So not calling a judge puts you at their mercy when it comes to them making a decision as to whether you have cheated or not. If they believe you have cheated you will be disqualified and could face further penalties such as being banned if it is deemed appropriate.