Demonic Tutor

Magic: the Gathering in the UK

The official announcement is here: http://forum.magicmadhouse.co.uk/viewforum.php?f=15

Assuming you have read all that, I am very pleased to be running these leagues with Jason and hope that all of you Londoners can make it. There has been a small but vocal community of constructed players in London who miss having decent events in the capital and I hope this will fix that problem. In addition to the leagues, we will be running some big prize tournaments at weekends; watch this space. (or that space, more accurately!)

Hope to see all of you next Wednesday.

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I don't see why anyone outside the top 3 should really get prizes, if your not in it to win it why bother, where would you go down to top 5, 10, what do you think someone in 5th should get?  It sounds like I'm being harsh I'm not trying to be, just not sure how many people are playing this, if it's upwards of 20 then I can understand possibly going as low as 5 but if you've got 10 you don't want more than 3rd really

"If you're not in it to win it why bother" - Because you enjoy playing a few games? I guess I'm not as cut-throat competitive as some of the rest of you then - a tournament that is too top-heavy is actually offputting to me, despite being attractive to some others. I'm more in favour of a PTQ-like prize distribution, whereby the top third or so of players (say those who 4-2 or better in a 6 round tournament) get something for their efforts. Note this does roughly agree with your top 3 in a 10 player tournament, top ~5 in a 20 player tournament.

This should really be a different thread, by ah well.

I'm pretty much with Glenn. If you love playing Magic and are in it for the games, prizes have no relevance. If you are in it to win, top heavy prizes are good. If you honestly want to get a booster or two out of it, why not just buy a booster?

Tournaments where you get prizes down to, say, a 40% to 50% record (like going 3-4 in a seven round tournament) are designed for new players to get into the tournament scene. Prizes at 60% to 70% or so are IMO a general benchline for a decent tournament, and prizes at 80% are for tournaments which are designed to be truly competitive.

It becomes a lot of pandering to bad players at 50% or less, almost a participation award, and at that point the finances involved mean you can only give out a booster at the low end anyway. So you pay, say £15, for this big tournament, and you win a booster for going 3-3, do you really feel satisfied and pleased? And is your meagre satisfaction if it does indeed exist worth the loss of good prizes for first? Without going into the maths considerably, let's do something simple:

Say a booster is £3. Say an top card is £80. Say you get 40 players.

If you run a 50% prize structure including boosters, 20 people get prizes instead of, say, 4. This is sixteen people getting prizes who wouldn't otherwise. Assuming they get an average of two and a half boosters (one at the bottom, up to six at the top), these sixteen people take 40*£3 out of the prize pool, or £120. This diminishes the first prize from 4 top cards, to just over 2, or diminishes first and second from 4 decent cards to three. As we all know, Magic decks are made from playsets of 4, so offering 3 of a card just looks dumb. So, you drop the value of the card, and all of a sudden a 'win a playset of duals' becomes 'win a playset of dark confidants'. And for what? So that someone who didn't do well in the tournament can walk home with a booster?

As I said earlier, there is a sweet spot, and it is something we all get closer to the more we do these things, but it isn't ever going to be giving booster prizes out to people in the top half, it might stretch to the top 30%, but not more than that.


Of course, we could always raise the entry price by £3 a person and everyone can 'win' a booster, lol.

Personally, I play in tournaments in order to enjoy playing Magic for the day. When I win, I'm chuffed, when I don't, I'm occasionally annoyed, but it isn't the reason I turn up. I turn up because I enjoy playing the game and I want to play against as many people with as many different decks as possible. Winning the occasional booster means nothing, winning a play set of duallands sticks in the memory as 'that tournament where I won these cards'. I know which I prefer.

Back on-topic, I was a little disappointed to note that despite a lot of talk about how good these leagues look, none of the vocal posters from Demonic Tutor actually turned up last night. Are you guys all talk and no action?? Hope to see some of you next week for Modern. :D

I think we all are agreeing that top 1/3rd or so of players receiving prizes is about right - just I thought top 4 prizes only for a 40+ player tournament (and really, I don't think 4 brainstorms at $2 each counts for much as a top 4 prize, it's not even your money back in cards) was not something I would play in again.

Crispin if this was last year I would have been all over this like a rash but not really playing magic any more due to getting married and wizards being DICKS (in that order).

On the prize issue - I recently won a 40 man pre-release and got 8 boosters for a days work, I also did very poorly in another pre-release and went I think 3-3 and got 2 boosters, this I grant you is aimed new players but still quite frustrating if you constantly do well

Well Dan, I'm sure you'll come to the next few... ;) And where were you last night?

Glenn, I agree; winning a 40 man pre-rel and getting 8 boosters is a kick in the face. I remember when you used to get a box or more for such an event. That though, is Wizards stopping their decent support of TOs. I think you covered that in your other comment, lol.

As for getting married, it shouldn't stop you playing Magic, it should merely bring a lovely wife-to-be into the game every week. :P

 

I have basically made a decision to play WOW instead (mostly due to being a lot better at it), and it's a bit cheaper and doesn't take up every available weekend, I am hoping to hit a limited GP this year still (not Manchester as it's obviously the weekend of my stag)

Crispin Bateman said:

Well Dan, I'm sure you'll come to the next few... ;) And where were you last night?

Glenn, I agree; winning a 40 man pre-rel and getting 8 boosters is a kick in the face. I remember when you used to get a box or more for such an event. That though, is Wizards stopping their decent support of TOs. I think you covered that in your other comment, lol.

As for getting married, it shouldn't stop you playing Magic, it should merely bring a lovely wife-to-be into the game every week. :P

 

I thought Dan's original point was that the entry price is a bit high if you are just in it for the games. So prizes wouldn't have any relevance, but the cost to play is high regardless.

Crispin Bateman said:

This should really be a different thread, by ah well.

I'm pretty much with Glenn. If you love playing Magic and are in it for the games, prizes have no relevance. If you are in it to win, top heavy prizes are good. If you honestly want to get a booster or two out of it, why not just buy a booster?

One of the most memorable tournaments for me was a fairly small pre release. I partically remember it because I actually won at sealed (which is rare) but also because I won a small trophy. Probably only cost a minor amount, but it brings some nice memories of a fun day with it.

I saw earlier someone say weekend tournaments, I may keep an eye open for those (London is a bit too far to travel during the week for me)

just to chime in - i am definitely on glen's side here (sorry dan!)... broad prize distributions are kinda a waste of time.

also dan what are you talking about with PTQ-type prize distribution?! PTQs are the most top-heavy of all prize structures (1st place wins invite+airfare, everyone else wins functionally nothing)

I mean boosters wise, ignoring the invite+flight.

Philip Dickinson said:

also dan what are you talking about with PTQ-type prize distribution?! PTQs are the most top-heavy of all prize structures (1st place wins invite+airfare, everyone else wins functionally nothing)

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