You Make the Masters Set

[Thomas David Baker]

I loved Innistrad.  I believed Maro when he said New World Order made things better for experienced players too and used Innistrad as an example.

Then Modern Masters came out and despite having to include a bunch of rares and only being allowed cards from Mirrodin to Shards it was way better than anything we've seen since Innistrad, and most of what came before, too.

It will be minimum one year until the next Modern Masters.

So, my idea is, let's make our own Modern Masters.

Random ideas that are very much half formed:

* 6 of each of 60 commons, 3 of each of 60 uncommons, 2 of each of 50 rares, 1 of each of 10 mythics is 650 cards.

* Use old cards, pre-Mirrodin, for spell-based funtimes and novelty even for players that have been playing for a while.

* Invent cards where necessary to fill holes.

* Some possible seeded archetypes: free spell necro, ug madness, gro, draw-go, astral slide, reanimator, artifact control, mill, auras, tokens, birthing pod, pox, sacrifice, prison, wizard tribal.

* Possibly include a lot of Legacy playables and call it "Legacy Masters".  What wizards would print if they said fuck it to the secondary market and the reserve list and tried to support legacy via a "Masters" release.

What do you think?  Interested in being on the development team?  Could make for some cheap Tuesday nights during the long reign of M14* ...

* = Bit of a cheap shot.  I've actually really enjoyed 3 of the last 4 core set drafts.

[Thomas David Baker]

Will bring an alpha version of the cube tomorrow for a draft.  We seem to be at 5 or 6 right now so should be able to get something together.  I look forward to someone breaking it and making us all realize that having some card or other at Common is ridiculous.

[ross miles]

sounds good to me

 

simon if we dont get to play a board game id be at least interested to know you ideas on some good ones i should get

[Simon O'Keeffe]

Tom - do you have the latest breakdown of the sets contents anywhere? I saw the commons lists a few pages back but I thought we had changed some of those. No idea what the uncommons are yet!

Ross - I'd be happy to talk boardgames. Choosing them will depend a lot on what kind of games you like, level of complexity, and playgroup you will be playing them with.

[Thomas David Baker]

Full, current, totally provisional and missing some slots list is below.

Still every chance we go crazy and put in Rebels, Elves, Morph, Mercenaries, more Soldiers, Birds, less free spells, more free spells, less Legacy staples, more Legacy staples or throw the whole thing out and draft Ninth Edition for the rest of our lives.

But here it is in its current (and getting somewhat printed for tomorrow) form.  Anything you don't even want to see tomorrow - say something soon!

CW01 - Soul Warden W - creature, small, lifegain (clerics)
CW02 - Soltari Trooper 1W - creature, small, evasion (soldiers)
CW03 - Master Decoy 1W - creature, small, tapper
CW04 - Stoic Champion WW - creature, small (cycling)
CW05 - Phantom Nomad 1W - creature, small
CW06 - Soltari Lancer 2W - creature, small, first strike, evasion
CW07 - Monk Idealist 2W - creature, small (clerics, enchantments)
CW08 - Gustcloak Harrier 1WW - creature, small, flying (birds/soldiers)
CW09 - Teroh's Faithful 3W - creature, medium (clerics)
CW10 - Angel of Mercy 4W - creature, medium, life gain, flying
CW11 - Noble Templar 5W - creature, medium, vigilance (clerics, cycling)
CW12 - Opal Caryatid W - enchantment (enchantments, soliders)
CW13 - Seal of Cleansing 1W - enchantment, artifact/enchantment removal (enchantments)
CW14 - Pacifism 1W - enchantment, removal (enchantments)
CW15 - Opal Champion 2W - enchantment (enchantments)
CW16 - Radiant's Judgment 2W - instant, removal (cycling)
CW17 - Kor Chant 2W - instant, combat trick
CW18 - Second Thoughts 4W - instant, removal
UW01 - Silver Knight WW - creature, small
UW02 - Starlight Invoker 1W - creature, small (clerics)
UW03 - Soltari Priest WW - creature, small, protection (clerics)
UW04 - Soltari Monk WW - creature, small, protection (clerics)
UW05 - Doubtless One 2W - creature, medium (clerics)
UW06 - Knight of Dawn 1WW - creature, protection
UW07 - Ballista Squad 3W - creature, small, removal
UW08 - Valor 3W - creature, small
UW09 - Spirit Cairn
UW10 - Astral Slide 2W - enchantment (cycling)
UW11 - Improvised Armor 3W - aura (enchantments, cycling)
UW12 - Battle Screech 2WW - sorcery (birds)
RW01 - Mother of Runes W (clerics)
RW02 - Glory
RW03 - Academy Rector
RW04 - Enlightened Tutor
RW05 - Glorious Anthem
RW06 - Humility
RW07 - Karmic Guide
RW08 - Land Tax
RW09 - Replenish
RW10 - Solitary Confinement
MW01 - Akroma, Angel of Wrath
MW02 - Eternal Dragon
CU01 - Hapless Researcher U - creature, small (wizards, madness)
CU02 - Cloud of Faeries 1U - creature, small, flying (storm, cycling)
CU03 - Merfolk Looter 1U - creature, small (madness)
CU04 - Thalakos Scout 2U - creature, small, evasion (madness)
CU05 - Merchant of Secrets 2U - creature, small, cantrip (wizards)
CU06 - Mistform Wall 2U - creature, medium (birds, wizards)
CU07 - Scrivener 4U - creature, small (wizards)
CU08 - Peregrine Drake 4U - creature, medium (storm)
CU09 - Shoreline Ranger 5U - creature, medium, flying, islandcycling (birds)
CU10 - Brainstorm U - draw (storm)
CU11 - Careful Study/Pendrell Flux/Curfew
CU12 - Obsessive Search U - instant, cantrip (storm, madness)
CU13 - Miscalculation 1U - instant, counterspell (cycling)
CU14 - Snap 1U - instant, bounce (storm)
CU15 - Rush of Knowledge 4U - sorcery, draw
CU16 - Choking Tethers 3U - instant, tap (cycling)
CU17 - Deep Analysis 3U - sorcery, draw (madness)
CU18 - Temporal Fissure 4U - sorcery, bounce (storm)
UU01 - Circular Logic (madness)
UU02 - Wonder (madness)
UU03 - Fact or Fiction
UU04 - Daze
UU05 - Repulse
UU06 - Brain Freeze (storm)
UU07 - Aphetto Grifter (wizards)
UU08 - Waterfront Bouncer (madness)
UU09 - Counterspell/Dismiss/Exclude/Forbid
UU10 -
RU01 - Ertai, Wizard Adept
RU02 - Future Sight
RU03 - Misdirection
RU04 - Palinchron
RU05 - Patron Wizard
RU06 - Propaganda
RU07 - Show and Tell
RU08 - Treachery
RU09 - Time Warp
RU10 - Cunning Wish
MU01 - Dream Halls
MU02 - Time Spiral
CB01 - Festering Goblin B - creature, small (goblins, sacrifice)
CB02 - Carrion Feeder B - creature, small (sacrifice)
CB03 - Ravenous Rats 1B - creature, small (sacrifice)
CB04 - Dauthi Horror 1B - creature, small, evasion
CB05 - Mesmeric Fiend 1B - creature, small (sacrifice)
CB06 - Priest of Gix 2B - creature, small (clerics, storm)
CB07 - Phyrexian Rager 2B - creature, small
CB08 - Gravedigger 3B - creature, small, raise dead
CB09 - Vile Deacon 2BB - creature, small-medium (clerics)
CB10 - Twisted Abomination 5B - creature, medium, swampcycling
CB11 - Innocent Blood B - sorcery, removal (sacrifice)
CB12 - Unearth B - sorcery, reanimation (cycling)
CB13 - Ghastly Demise B - instant, removal (graveyard/threshold)
CB14 - Culling the Weak B - instant, mana acceleration (sacrifice, storm)
CB15 - Cabal Ritual 1B - instant, mana acceleration (threshold, storm)
CB16 - Swat 1BB - instant, removal (cycling)
CB17 - Profane Prayers 2BB - sorcery, removal (clerics)
CB18 - Patriarch's Desire 3B - removal (threshold)
UB01 - Cabal Archon (clerics)
UB02 - Rotlung Reanimator (clerics, sacrifice)
UB03 - Tendrils of Agony (storm)
UB04 - Cabal Therapy (sacrifice)
UB05 - Bone Shredder/Nekrataal
UB06 - Sadistic Hypnotist (sacrifice)
UB07 - Faceless Butcher (sacrifice)
UB08 - Gloomdrifter (threshold)
UB09 - Withered Wretch (clerics)
UB10 - Nantuko Husk (sacrifice)
RB01 - Grave Pact
RB02 - Entomb
RB03 - Attrition
RB04 - Avatar of Woe
RB05 - Diabolic Intent
RB06 - Entomb
RB07 - Ill-Gotten Gains
RB08 - Living Death
RB09 - Mortivore
RB10 - No Mercy
MB01 - Phyrexian Arena
MB02 - Recurring Nightmare
CR01 - Goblin Patrol R - creature, small (goblins)
CR02 - Mogg Fanatic R - creature, small, direct damage (goblins)
CR03 - Fireslinger 1R - creature, small, direct damage (wizards)
CR04 - Goblin Lookout 1R - creature, small (goblins)
CR05 - Goblin War Buggy 1R - creature, small, haste (goblins)
CR06 - Anarchist 4R - creature, small (wizards)
CR07 - Mogg Flunkies 1R - creature, medium (goblins)
CR08 - Rock Jockey 2R - creature, medium (goblins)
CR09 - Chartooth Cougar 5R - creature, medium, mountaincycling (cycling)
CR10 - Macetail Hystrodon 6R - creature, medium (cycling)
CR11 - Firebolt R - sorcery, direct damage
CR12 - Threaten 2R - sorcery, threaten
CR13 - Lavamancer's Skill 1R - aura, direct damage (wizards)
CR14 - Solar Blast 3R - instant, direct damage (cycling)
CR15 - Scrap 2R - artifact removal (cycling)
CR16 - Strafe R - sorcery, creature damage
CR17 - Wave of Indifference XR - sorcery, falter
CR18 - Heat Ray XR - instant, creature damage
UR01 - Slice and Dice
UR02 - Flametongue Kavu
UR03 - Lightning Rift
UR04 - Goblin Bombardment
UR05 - Anger
UR06 - Goblin Matron
UR07 - Goblin Warchief
UR08 - Retromancer
UR09 - Goblin Ringleader
UR10 - Gempalm Incinerator
RR01 - Siege-Gang Commander
RR02 - Goblin Lackey
RR03 - Goblin Piledriver
RR04 - Goblin Sharpshooter
RR05 - Grim Lavamancer
RR06 - Sneak Attack
RR07 - Urza's Rage
RR08 - Wildfire
RR09 - Burning Wish
RR10 -
MR01 - Form of the Dragon
MR02 - Gamble
CG01 - Basking Rootwalla G - creature, small (madness)
CG02 - Wild Mongrel 1G - creature, small (madness)
CG03 - Werebear 1G - creature, small, ramp (threshold)
CG04 - Heartwood Dryad 1G - creature, small, anti-shadow
CG05 - Yavimaya Elder 1GG - creature, small, ramp
CG06 - Spike Worker 2G - creature, small
CG07 - Symbiotic Elf 3G - creature, small (sacrifice)
CG08 - Trained Armodon 2G - creature, medium
CG09 - Springing Tiger 3G - creature, medium (threshold)
CG10 - Spike Colony 4G - creature, medium
CG11 - Giant Warthog 5G - creature, large, trample
CG12 - Wirewood Guardian 5GG - creature, large, landcycling (cycling)
CG13 - Krosan Tusker 5GG - creature, large, landcycling (cycling)
CG14 - Seal of Strength G - pump (enchantments)
CG15 - Fertile Ground 1G - enchantment, ramp (enchantments)
CG16 - Overgrowth 2G - enchantment, ramp (enchantments)
CG17 - Ancestral Mask 2G - aura, pump (enchantments)
CG18 - Break Asunder 2GG - artifact/enchantment destruction (cycling)
UG01 - Arrogant Wurm (madness)
UG02 - Roar of the Wurm (madness)
UG03 - Yavimaya Enchantress
UG04 - Still Life
UG05 - Blastoderm
UG06 - Brawn
UG07 - Invigorating Boon
UG08 - Nimble Mongoose
UG09 -
UG10 -
RG01 - Argothian Enchantress
RG02 - Enchantress' Presence
RG03 - Genesis
RG04 - Fecundity
RG05 - Defense of the Heart
RG06 - Deranged Hermit
RG07 - Nostalgic Dreams
RG08 - Quirion Dryad
RG09 - Terrarove
RG10 - Verdant Force
MG01 - Aluren
MG02 - Exploration
UWU - Sawtooth Loon/Ordered Migration
UWB - Gerard's Verdict
UWR - Goblin Legionnaire
UWG - Sterling Grove
UUB - Recoil/Cavern Harpy
UUR - Quicksilver Dagger
UUG - Yavimaya's Embrace/Temporal Spring
UBR - Terminate
UBG - Consume Strength
URG - Fires of Yavimaya
RWU - Meddling Mage
RWB - Vindicate
RWR - Goblin Trenches
RWG - Mirari's Wake/Phantom Nishoba
RUB - Psychatog/Undermine/Shadowmage Infiltrator
RUR - Prophetic Bolt
RUG - Mystic Snake
RBR - Void
RBG - Pernicious Deed or Spiritmonger
RRG - Last Stand???
CA01 - Lotus Petal
RA01 - Mox Diamond
RA02 - Smokestack
RA03 - Tangle Wire
RA04 - Cursed Scroll
RA05 - Grim Monolith
RA06 - Metalworker
RA07 - Erratic Portal
RA08 - Ensnaring Bridge
RA09 - Powder Keg
RA10 -
CL01 - Terminal Moraine
UL01 - Bloodstained Mire
UL02 - Flooded Strand
UL03 - Polluted Delta
UL04 - Windswept Heath
UL05 - Wooded Foothills
UL06 - Battlefield Forge
UL07 - Caves of Koilos
UL08 - Llanowar Wastes
UL09 - Shivan Reef
UL10 - Yavimaya Coast
UL06 - Faerie Conclave/Cephalid Coliseum
UL07 - Forbidding Watchtower/Nomad Stadium
UL08 - Ghitu Encampment/Barbarian Ring
UL09 - Spawning Pool/Cabal Pit
UL10 - Treetop Village/Centaur Garden
RL01 - Dust Bowl
RL02 - Wasteland
RL03 - Rishadan Port
RL04 - Volrath's Stronghold
RL05 - Phyrexian Tower
RL06 - Grand Coliseum
RL07 - Riptide Laboratory
RL08 - Ancient Tomb
RL09 - City of Traitors
RL10 -

 

[Dan Barrett]

RR10 - Decree of Annihilation / Starstorm ?

RA10 - Sphere of Resistance / Black Vise / Jester's Cap / Memory Jar / Mirari ?

RL10 - Karakas / Maze of Ith / Strip Mine ?

[Thomas David Baker]

Regarding lands I'm not sure we want five Mythic lands.  The only difference between a Mythic and a Rare is whether there is one of something in the Rare pile, or two.  So in some sense the discussion is mostly irrelevant.  But if we're only going to have two Mythics in each color it seems right to only have two Mythic lands, also.

Similarly I think we're best off with 10 Rare lands and 15 at Uncommon.  Any more and we start to have more lands than we do of anyone color of cards at a given rarity which seems like too many.  Assuming we have 10 fixing lands of whatever stripe that leaves us with choices between Threshold and Manlands at Uncommon and then whichever we don't pick at Uncommon and the 6th-10th most interesting other lands at Rare.

Printing the W Threshold land seems like a big waste of a slot as there's basically no circumstances under which you would run it.  W also gets the worst of the manlands, I think.  Maybe not in the context of the set.

Stuff to think about with lands, anyway, although the main question seems to be down to Threshold lands versus Manlands versus a split.

[Thomas David Baker]

Out of interest the current list contains cards in these amounts from our target sets:

Tempest 25
Stronghold 8
Exodus 11 

Urza's Saga 25
Urza's Legacy 19
Urza's Destiny 8

Mercadian Masques 7
Nemesis 4
Prophecy 1

Invasion 9
Planeshift 5
Apocalypse 13

Odyssey 25
Torment 11
Judgment 15

Onslaught 31
Legions 8
Scourge 16

Tempest Block 44

Urza's Block 52

Masques Block 12

Invasion Block 27

Odyssey Block 51

Onslaught Block 55

[Thomas David Baker]

Starstorm and Decree of Annihilation are definitely possible R rares.  We don't want to be in the position where one player has a bunch of 2/2 Clerics for 3 and the other player has wrath effects.  This is a problem with all kinds of cards not just these two so I'll slot one of these in and we can see how it plays.

Looking at Meloku and Oona from MMA I can see that we can get away with bomb rares.  I'm not sure if MMA would be better off without these cards?  Rares fulfill the function of allowing catchups and reversals of fortune.  I think ideally they at least require the owner to resolve them past countermagic and untap without them being killed before they run over the opponent?  There are plenty of Rares that can steal games on our list from Show and Tell to Living Death to Vindicate (your only blue source) to Goblin Lackey into Siege-Gang Commander (how lucky!) but hopefully we can keep them fun (like the Lackey example which will be vanishingly rare and has answers) and not oppressive.

I had Mirari, Legacy Weapon and Mox Diamond as the three potential Mythic artifacts but I left them off above because I am a dufus.  One of these could drop down to rare to fill the empty slot so that we don't break our two Mythics of every type rule, if we are having that.

Sphere of Resistance also makes a lot of sense as an Artifact Rare but I'm worried it doesn't have a deck.  I have the same problem with Metalworker and Karn, Silver Golem - we have basically zero artifacts!  There are 125 unretired artifacts in the pool so perhaps we can find some to include ... http://mv.bluebones.net/search/?q=t:artifact  .... Artifacts in general needs a sensible look from someone.

Black Vise, Jester's Cap and the lands are not in our pool because they are too old (we start at Tempest).

[Kieran Symington]

I think you really want Fierce Empath at common - probably replacing Spike Worker. He seems like an awesome card for the RG ramp deck because he can search for your landcyclers early on and big guys later. Plus those exact same landcyclers are awesome in the Lightning Rift or Astral Slide deck so he fits into multiple strategies provided you have the cards to back him up.

Also, surely Elephant Guide for an uncommon enchantment!

[Thomas David Baker]

Elephant Guide and Fierce Empath are both sweeeet inclusions.

Is this the death knell of Trained Armodon and the end of all midrange fat in G?  In the Game of Forests you Ramp or you Die?

Edit: Oh, Spike Worker.  I kind of like the minor Spike theme.  It will be getting really minor if we cut him but I guess I am not that wed to it.

[Kieran Symington]

Also, from this list I can see you have Ravenous Rats AND Mesmeric Fiend at common in black. Since those are pretty much the same thing (a 1/1 for 1B with a 'discard' effect) I really think you should cut one of them, possibly to add a relatively mid-cost flier since there is definitely a space in Black for one right now. I'm thinking something like Soul Scourge even though it is quite bad.

On a totally different topic, Snuff Out would absolutely rule in the Storm deck (or any deck for that matter).

[Kieran Symington]

I forgot that that stupid Trained Armodon is still in the cube. Very happy for him to be cut for Empath!