Worldwake - control is back?!

[wv]

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=98693&am...

I'd suggest buying Emeria Angel's EN MASS while they're cheap.

[Dan Barrett]

WOW!

This + the rumoured counterspell = FANTASTIC!

[wv]

Rumoured Counterspell?!?!?! MOAR INFO PL0X

Dan Barrett said:

WOW!

This + the rumoured counterspell = FANTASTIC!

[Dan Barrett]

see here

(contains potential spoilers)

[wv]

Holy god damn shit.

Cascade just got it's ass torn asunder.

I love Magic again.

[Amidu]

control never left you blasphemous douche

[Thomas David Baker]

It really did.

[Tom Reeve]

New counterspell is very good, land is pretty awkward. It will see play because it's a Coastal Tower with a more relevant upside than 'gain 1 life', but it's not all that exciting. Much more interested to see the rest of the cycle, hopefully they'll fit better into their respective colour schemes. 4/4 flying lifelink, for example, would have been much more interesting, or 3/5 flying lifelink, or 4/4 flying first strike. The vigilance here seems like an almost complete blank. As it is, it dies to Bituminous Blast as well as all the non-damage removal and it only trades with a pretty substantial set of creatures that it might be blocking - Leech, Thoctar, Broodmate/token and so on.

[wv]

Tom Reeve said:

New counterspell is very good, land is pretty awkward. It will see play because it's a Coastal Tower with a more relevant upside than 'gain 1 life', but it's not all that exciting. Much more interested to see the rest of the cycle, hopefully they'll fit better into their respective colour schemes. 4/4 flying lifelink, for example, would have been much more interesting, or 3/5 flying lifelink, or 4/4 flying first strike. The vigilance here seems like an almost complete blank. As it is, it dies to Bituminous Blast as well as all the non-damage removal and it only trades with a pretty substantial set of creatures that it might be blocking - Leech, Thoctar, Broodmate/token and so on.

When you say the vigilance is a complete blank, I assume you mean the fact that after you stabalise in your UW control deck on 6 mana, you can start beating for 4 a turn, AND leave PtE mana up? On 7 mana you can beat for 4 AND leave PtE or new Counterspell mana up, probably countering that Bitimious Blast you mentioned?

Me thinks you underestimate this land, sir.

[Tom Reeve]

I'm pretty sure that what happens if you 'stabilise' and start attacking with this on turn 6/7 is that it gets shot in the face and your opponent gets a free turn to do whatever they like. When control decks tap out on turn 6/7, it tends to be for things like Keiga or Cruel Ultimatum, not a 4 point burn spell that's susceptible to every removal spell bar Bolt and Pulse.

Warren Vonk said:

Tom Reeve said:

New counterspell is very good, land is pretty awkward. It will see play because it's a Coastal Tower with a more relevant upside than 'gain 1 life', but it's not all that exciting. Much more interested to see the rest of the cycle, hopefully they'll fit better into their respective colour schemes. 4/4 flying lifelink, for example, would have been much more interesting, or 3/5 flying lifelink, or 4/4 flying first strike. The vigilance here seems like an almost complete blank. As it is, it dies to Bituminous Blast as well as all the non-damage removal and it only trades with a pretty substantial set of creatures that it might be blocking - Leech, Thoctar, Broodmate/token and so on.

When you say the vigilance is a complete blank, I assume you mean the fact that after you stabalise in your UW control deck on 6 mana, you can start beating for 4 a turn, AND leave PtE mana up? On 7 mana you can beat for 4 AND leave PtE or new Counterspell mana up, probably countering that Bitimious Blast you mentioned?

Me thinks you underestimate this land, sir.

[Daniel Royde]

Tom: I think lifelink would have been too strong. The card seems fine- strong, but not unfair. I'm not sure about it vs gargoyle castle- 5 mana for 4 damage is good, but stabilising well enough to do that is hard
.
I find it hard to evaluate a man land that's also a dual- up til now manlands vs number of coloured sources was a bit of a tradeoff, this gets around that.

[Tom Reeve]

Right, I mean I'm not saying it's bad, I'm just saying it's going to be played because the opportunity cost of doing so is so low, not because it's good. It certainly isn't going to be a big part of any resurgence of control, because it does nothing on the list of things that control decks want/need to do that they currently can't. It's pretty terrible as a defensive card against modern aggro, it's a hideously expensive way of killing people, and it's awkwardly vulnerable to removal. But with that said, the opportunity cost of playing it in your UW deck is still 'not gaining 1 life'.

Daniel Royde said:

Tom: I think lifelink would have been too strong. The card seems fine- strong, but not unfair. I'm not sure about it vs gargoyle castle- 5 mana for 4 damage is good, but stabilising well enough to do that is hard
.
I find it hard to evaluate a man land that's also a dual- up til now manlands vs number of coloured sources was a bit of a tradeoff, this gets around that.

[Thomas David Baker]

Chapin rates it "totally absurd" ...

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/fundamentals/18453_Innovations_S...

So we're all agreed it will see play but we don't agree how good it will be once it's in play :)