Chapins article

[Gary Lynch]

Can someone post this for me as I don't have premium at the moment.

Thanks

[Dan Barrett]

It's nothing special, just a lot of lists and advice on testing

However, i am sure you want to see these TEACHINGS lists posted in the discussion forum:


Martin Goldman-Kirst
4 Kitchen Finks
2 Baneslayer Angel
2 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Vendillion Clique

4 Path to Exile
4 Mana Leak
3 Cryptic Command
3 Mystical Teachings
3 Engineered Explosives
2 Spell Snare
2 Thirst For Knowledge
1 Negate
1 Spell Burst
1 Extirpate
1 Pulse of the Fields

4 Marsh Flats
3 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Snow-Covered Island
2 Plains
2 Glacial Fortress
1 Godless Shrine
1 Watery Grave
1 Snow-Covered Plains
1 Tolaria West
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Academy Ruins
1 Mystic Gate
1 Misty Rainforest

SB
4 Meddling Mage
3 Circle of Protection: Red
3 Vendillion Clique
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Fracturing Gust




4 Drowned Catacomb
3 Glacial Fortress
2 Hallowed Fountain
4 Island
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Mystic Gate
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave

2 Baneslayer Angel
1 Plumeveil
3 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir

4 Cryptic Command
4 Doom Blade
4 Esper Charm
1 Extirpate
1 Logic Knot
4 Mana Leak
3 Mystical Teachings
1 Pact of Negation
1 Path to Exile
1 Repeal
1 Shadow of Doubt
1 Spell Burst
4 Spell Snare

Sideboard
3 Deathmark
2 Flashfreeze
1 Fracturing Gust
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Ravenous Trap
1 Shadow of Doubt
1 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
3 Thoughtseize

[Gary Lynch]

Looks like the next step in control from the tezzeret deck. I'm not actually sure they are good enough though.

[Charlie Grover]

The second one is ridicolous but a tiny bit too slow; plumeveil is nut high against zoo.

[Gary Lynch]

Rediculous bad or good. Your a lot better with this format than most people, perhaps a more detailed discussion about it would be helpful

That Ginger One said:

The second one is ridicolous but a tiny bit too slow; plumeveil is nut high against zoo.

[Charlie Grover]

Good.
And i know relatively little about this format, I cant hit the PTQ's up so my testing has been bashing against my teammates when they need good MWS opponents and I have nothing else to do. The list is solid, but it needs to be faster. Against zoo you were either drawing plumeveil, some doom blades, or losing. To fix this we were thinking -1 spell burst (wtf) -1 crypticc (7 4 drop spells is alot) +2 plumeveil or finks. Zoo is your worst matchup (probably) which makes plumeveil nice, but finks is better generally, especially against combo decks where you need to beat in. The first list I havent previously seen, so this is mostly theorycrafting, but I think its abit weaker. Its teachings are just not very good; probably could just as well be esper charms or thirsts. Pulse of the feilds is very neat though. Should probably go in the other list in place of..something. Maybe a cryptic.

Also, if anyones interested in refined decklists/random good non tier 1 stuff hit me up for lists, my team has some good ones.

[Daniel Royde]

Plumeveil does seem bad on the face of it. Surely finks is just more useful?

[Charlie Grover]

PLumeveil auto 2 for ones zoo, whereas finks's second life is mostly as an irrelevant chumper. Plumeveil is better against the other aggro decks which run out war monks, their own finks, etc. And it kills 3/4 goyfs. Its pretty much better except against mono red (and even then its not much worse, blocks all hellsparks/sparks/manlands for ever) and decks where you want to swing.

[Gary Lynch]

I though plumeveil was good for the same reason it was in standard. 4 toughness and flash made the difference.

Can teachings actually win?? If they remove your baneslayer you don't have a lot left to attack with.

Daniel Royde said:

Plumeveil does seem bad on the face of it. Surely finks is just more useful?

[Charlie Grover]

You just revert to beating down with teferi if they do that, but it is slightly awkward.

[Dan Barrett]

While we're on the subject, Charlie, can you explain how exactly this deck survives long enough to get its combo online? It clearly did very well, but with so many 1/2/3 ofs it seems awkward, and only 1 and 2 of your combo pieces seems less than stellar:

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/deck...

[Gary Lynch]

I think the deck looks rubbish. Sometimes these decks can win because the pilot was very good and also lucky. It looks like you would need very specific draws to. Be able to beat anything.

Sometimes the game is all about the luck. I don't see how without being really lucky thus guy could ever beat burn, and that's one of the most popular decks online.

Dan Barrett said:

While we're on the subject, Charlie, can you explain how exactly this deck survives long enough to get its combo online? It clearly did very well, but with so many 1/2/3 ofs it seems awkward, and only 1 and 2 of your combo pieces seems less than stellar: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/deck...

[Ben Titmarsh]

This is the stock Tezzeret list Dan. The idea is that it basically has answers to everything and plenty of ways to get at them (Trinket Mage/Gifts/Muddle). Most of the cards have utility in the common matchup's aside from Tormods Crypt which gives you a game 1 vs Dredge. Fast Zoo does have a good game against it, but it has plenty of outs in Wrath/Explosives/Chalice. It eventually wins by exhausting it's opponents options and sticking Tezzeret/Sword combo/Shackles. The reason it runs less combo pieces is because it is a control deck with combo as one win condition and not just a combo deck. Running Thopter/Sword as 4-ofs leaves the deck quite narrow and vulnerable to hate cards.

LSV wrote a long article over on channelfireball if you want to know more:

http://strategy.channelfireball.com/featured-articles/initial-techn...


Dan Barrett said:

While we're on the subject, Charlie, can you explain how exactly this deck survives long enough to get its combo online? It clearly did very well, but with so many 1/2/3 ofs it seems awkward, and only 1 and 2 of your combo pieces seems less than stellar:
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/deck...