PTQ's Honolulu

[Nick Lovett]

Pretty uninspiring schedule all around:

 

http://community.wizards.com/mtguk/blog/2011/08/26/pro_tour_honolul...

 

Very few PTQs, all of them pretty near here except for the usual 3 - Ireland, Scotland and Manc. People up north/ in the west of england/Wales will be delighted - Not!

 

It would seem that yet again Jason has been overlooked for a PTQ - le sigh

[Daniel Royde]

Haven't numbers been down recently- we probably shouldn't be getting more than that.

 

Slightly separate issue. I will probably be able to play in these PTQs. Flights to Hawaii are expensive (£700pp). If I were to reach the finals of one of these, what would the etiquette be?

[Nick Lovett]

Probably some cheering from yourself, and other people asking you for lottery numbers - I think you would be on what could be described as a "hot" streak.

Of course you could do what J Randle did at the Birmingham PTQ for Nagoya - lose to Tan-Tai without arranging a split and then discover that Tan never made it onto the flight to Japan :P

[Roy Raftery]

has the format been stated yet?

[MarcoOJ]

Talk to oppo outside venue and explain situation and if both agree arrange some sort of split + scoop. If no agreement can be reached or if oppo is the 'came to game' sort who would never contemplate the idea of the split + scoop or an anal-retentive rules lawyer type who would insta judge call if approached in this way then play and win.

 

*Before i get lynched by all the judges, i dont usually condone collusion/bribery but a ptq finals where one person is q'ed already should be treated differently imo as it is really illogical for most people to gamble for £500 and a slot when some sort of mutually beneficial arrangement can be reached.

[Philip Dickinson]

wizards should prolly change the tournament rules so that people can be more open about splits etc. i mean people get away with the typical 'so... will you actually go to the pro tour if you win? because i definitely would...' but it's reached a point now where the judges know perfectly well what people mean when they say things like this. i think the whole situation could be avoided if there were rules in place to control this sort of thing rather than just outlaw it

[Thom Richardson]

the etiquette is to be really fucking careful because (unless i'm mistake somehow) you can't actually arrange a split in a ptq final (apart from the, one player gets the flight the other the boosters) without it being bribery/collusion.

 

which may be silly, but those are the rules at present. 

 

basically, dont do it unless you know the person already

[Thomas David Baker]

I can't answer this question without knowing the following details about the scenario:

 

    1. Are you wearing the shirt?

 

[Amar Dattani]

I believe there are separate rules regarding a PTQ or GPT top 8.

 When I was doing a GPT for Madrid (with a travel award) I was allowed (by the head judge) to offer my opponent the travel award and for me to get the 3 byes. He then 'dropped' from the event before the final.

 

I'm not sure how this was achieved but a judge may be able to shed light on what exact rules were used.

 

 

[Tom Reeve]

I believe that's because the Travel Award is a separate prize offered by the TO (and thus up for discussion in splits separately to byes and product) - the flight and the PT invite from a PTQ are two parts of a single 'prize'.

 

Basically, there is no way to agree a split legally that involves anything other than the prizes on offer in the tournament - there can be no discussion that, for example, the person who gets the win contributes towards the flight of the qualified person who scoops the final. About all you can do is talk to people you know who are playing before the tournament starts and go through what would happen should you meet them in the finals. As soon as the tournament starts, it's technically too late to start making those arrangements.

 

(Note that I'm only L1, and don't judge often, so getting clarification on this might be an idea. But basically, onec the tournament starts, no 'outside-tournament' compensation can be offered for anything.)

 

Amar Dattani said:

I believe there are separate rules regarding a PTQ or GPT top 8.

 When I was doing a GPT for Madrid (with a travel award) I was allowed (by the head judge) to offer my opponent the travel award and for me to get the 3 byes. He then 'dropped' from the event before the final.

 

I'm not sure how this was achieved but a judge may be able to shed light on what exact rules were used.

 

 

[Thom Richardson]

from the tournament rules pdf:

 

Example: In the finals of a 1-slot Pro Tour Qualifier that offers a travel award and an invitation to the winner, the two finalists may agree to split the tournament prizes, but this agreement cannot alter the results of the match. One player must drop from the tournament, leaving the travel award and the invitation to the player who did not drop from the tournament. That player is then free to split the remainder of the prizes as agreed upon. The travel award and invitation are a single item and may not be split.

Tom Reeve said:

I believe that's because the Travel Award is a separate prize offered by the TO (and thus up for discussion in splits separately to byes and product) - the flight and the PT invite from a PTQ are two parts of a single 'prize'.

 

Basically, there is no way to agree a split legally that involves anything other than the prizes on offer in the tournament - there can be no discussion that, for example, the person who gets the win contributes towards the flight of the qualified person who scoops the final. About all you can do is talk to people you know who are playing before the tournament starts and go through what would happen should you meet them in the finals. As soon as the tournament starts, it's technically too late to start making those arrangements.

 

(Note that I'm only L1, and don't judge often, so getting clarification on this might be an idea. But basically, onec the tournament starts, no 'outside-tournament' compensation can be offered for anything.)

 

Amar Dattani said:

I believe there are separate rules regarding a PTQ or GPT top 8.

 When I was doing a GPT for Madrid (with a travel award) I was allowed (by the head judge) to offer my opponent the travel award and for me to get the 3 byes. He then 'dropped' from the event before the final.

 

I'm not sure how this was achieved but a judge may be able to shed light on what exact rules were used.

 

 

[Dan Barrett]

Glenn described to me how the travel award used to be cash and separate from the qualification slot, which sounded a lot better from the splitting point of view. 

 

However I guess the point of having the prizes be bundled is to make sure people actually attend the pro tour. Shame splits cannot be discussed more openly though in cases such as the above.

[Glenn Goldsworthy]

to be fair the prize was $500 and was almost never enough for flights to most PT venues (hence me never being able to go and taking the cash), the problem now is there is nothing to barter with as there is no money, if you start saying that you will pay people to scoop that is where things getting proper dodgy.

 

I know of at least 1 ptq top 8 where the winner never played a game and bribed each opponent a large sum of money to get there as he was "minted" but wanted to play on the pro tour.