Updated Standard Thoughts

[Gary Lynch]

So what does everyone think of the current standard enviroment as it stands? What deck would you play in a tournament if cards/cost was no option?

Interesting article here http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/standard/19312_Too_Much_Informat...

He goes into the win percentages of each deck and it does look like a pure meta game call. While U/W/r Planeswalkers was tearing it up it was still only 57% against Jund. Good but hardly a great result.

Wish I could see the decklist that won the Gravesend PTQ as it was Jund playing Persecutors main. Also the most recent Jund list in America was running a bunch of fetches and Plated Geopedes. Would love to see an article on that, obviously an answer to Wall of Omens and the cool part was the Sedraxis Specters and an Island in the sideboard. They Spreading Seas your land and you say thanks for the fixing and fly over thier Wall of Omens.

Anyone think there is another deck out there that could be well positioned now Jund will possibly be less played?

What do people predict of the meta game as we move forward?

[Dan Barrett]

"only" 57% ?! Jeez, you don't ask for much Gary - i'll take any matchup which is better than 50/50 and be grateful!


I think the standard meta will even out in the coming weeks, with lots of decks being viable - this is a great position to be in if you can put the time in to practise, as knowing the matchups/your deck inside-out becomes more important than picking the "right" deck.

The only thing is, if it stays that open, you do end up with a minority of quite uneven matchups, as you can't build a board against *everything*.

[Gary Lynch]

What I meant is that playing a deck that is 57% against Jund doesnt mean you beat Jund. People seem to think that it does.

It is true what you say about an open meta. Some people like that they can play any deck and have a shot. Some people hate it cause then your whole day comes down to pairings. Personaly I would rather play the best deck and know I lost cause I wasnt good enough rather than lose to bad pairings. Losing cause you made mistakes means you have something to work on after the tournament, losing cause of pairings just means you were unlucky and there is nothing you can do about that.

Dan Barrett said:

"only" 57% ?! Jeez, you don't ask for much Gary - i'll take any matchup which is better than 50/50 and be grateful!


I think the standard meta will even out in the coming weeks, with lots of decks being viable - this is a great position to be in if you can put the time in to practise, as knowing the matchups/your deck inside-out becomes more important than picking the "right" deck.

The only thing is, if it stays that open, you do end up with a minority of quite uneven matchups, as you can't build a board against *everything*.

[Dan Barrett]

With the exception of maybe Time Sieve against UW where they have no board against it, or possibly Mono-R against a slow Jund build, i don't think there are any matchups that come too close to "unwinnable" right now - all decks are capable of beating most other decks if you know what you are doing. In short, i don't think it comes down to pairings right now as you do.

[Richard Plummer]

Hi chaps - figured i should probably sign up and post rather than just lurking. This is the decklist that i won with at the Gravesend PTQ. It's a Jund build thats good in the mirror (the card that won me most games was Sarkhan, rather than Persecutor), and with the lower curve you're less susceptible to ruinblasters/spreading seas. I also happened to get reasonably lucky that day with my matchups as i played a lot of the mirror:

3 x Maelstrom Pulse
4 x Blightning
3 x Terminate
2 x Consuming Vapours
4 x Lightning Bolt
2 x Sarkhan the Mad
4 x Bloodbraid Elf
4 x Sprouting Thrinax
1 x Siege-gang Commander
4 x Abyssal Persecutor
4 x Putrid Leech

4 x Savage Lands
2 x Raging Ravine
1 x Rootbound Crag
4 x Verdant Catacombs
4 x Dragonskull Summit
1 x Lavaclaw Reaches
4 x Swamp
2 x Forest
3 x Mountain

SB:
2 x Malakir Bloodwitch
2 x Thought Hemorrhage
2 x Duress
4 x Goblin Ruinblaster
1 x Terminate
2 x Grim Discovery
2 x Jund Charm

In terms of the meta going forward, i see 6 decks that should be in a gauntlet that all have good to excellent chances of taking down a tournament: UWr planeswalkers, UW control, R(b)DW, Jund, Mythic, Time Seive/Turbofog. I don't rate polymorph too highly to be honest and while it can win games i don't think it will be consistent enough to win a tourney.

[Dan Barrett]

No mana-accel at all Rich? Maybe it's too cute, but playing t3 bloodbraids/persecutors (or ruinblasters in the mirror) seems pretty filthy.

+ I do like the Grim Discoveries a lot, saw them suggested in (i think) AJ Sacher's article a while back, but you're pretty much the only person i've seen to use that/think of it themself and use it.

[Richard Plummer]

In my standard build of Jund pre this, i played 2 rampant growths. And i absolutely hated them. So no, i don't think this needs any accel at all, especially with the lower curve.

Honestly - most mirror games i felt like i didn't really need to sideboard, this build felt like it was just going to win. I'd love to claim credit for the grim discos, but i stole the idea from Sacher :) I'd board +2 Grim +2 blaster +1 terminate, -3 pulse -2 leech on the draw, then +4 blaster +1 terminate -3 pulse -2 leech on the play.

Dan Barrett said:

No mana-accel at all Rich? Maybe it's too cute, but playing t3 bloodbraids/persecutors (or ruinblasters in the mirror) seems pretty filthy.
+ I do like the Grim Discoveries a lot, saw them suggested in (i think) AJ Sacher's article a while back, but you're pretty much the only person i've seen to use that/think of it themself and use it.

[Charlie Grover]

The sieve deck from verheys last article is pretty saucy, even if it should have jace mark 1 in it somewhere. Like, standard is awful. Everyone says ist good and balanced, but you cant make a good interesting deck. The problem is, every deck just plays such a ridicolous card advantage engine, with powerful cards that there is little room for innovation. The sieve deck verhey's got (i prefer my list, but w/ever, kinda failed for Lovett last weekend) tries to fight this by not caring what the opponent is doing, and RDW works in a similar way. Its not a very open format really, which upsets me, I see very little room to build interesting decks. Asides brad Nelsons deck from last week. Its the spice.

The point of this rant is standard is bad, play brads deck from last week, time seive, or failing that beat face with bant conscritption... :P

[Paul Hodgson]

How have you been using the Thought Hemmorhage's? I got crushed at the Nats Q after naming Gideon against superfriends, rather than Elspeth (for example). Leading with Duress is obviously the best way to get info on their hand, but there's probably more value to just knowing what to take.

Richard Plummer said:

In my standard build of Jund pre this, i played 2 rampant growths. And i absolutely hated them. So no, i don't think this needs any accel at all, especially with the lower curve.

Honestly - most mirror games i felt like i didn't really need to sideboard, this build felt like it was just going to win. I'd love to claim credit for the grim discos, but i stole the idea from Sacher :) I'd board +2 Grim +2 blaster +1 terminate, -3 pulse -2 leech on the draw, then +4 blaster +1 terminate -3 pulse -2 leech on the play.

Dan Barrett said:

No mana-accel at all Rich? Maybe it's too cute, but playing t3 bloodbraids/persecutors (or ruinblasters in the mirror) seems pretty filthy.
+ I do like the Grim Discoveries a lot, saw them suggested in (i think) AJ Sacher's article a while back, but you're pretty much the only person i've seen to use that/think of it themself and use it.

[Richard Plummer]

The PTQ was before the rise of superfriends, so i'd probably look at changing the deck/side a bit now, but the reason for the thought hemos on the day was for the combo decks (polymorph, open the vaults/time sieve, etc) where the cards you name with it are pretty straightforward (poly, jace, emrakul, OtV, tezz, sieve, warp). Obviously being able to duress them first and then hemo them is good times. I'd probably look at having 1-2 more duresses as they were great whenever i brought them in.

[Ben Titmarsh]

Nice to see more people loving the sieve. I've run it in a PTQ and a Nats Qualifier now and absolutely love it.... Thought Hemmorage naming Tezzeret? No problem, i'll just ramp up to Emrakul using my near-inifinte turns! Duress generally proves problematic, any suggestions in this regard Charlie?

That Ginger One said:

The sieve deck from verheys last article is pretty saucy, even if it should have jace mark 1 in it somewhere. Like, standard is awful. Everyone says ist good and balanced, but you cant make a good interesting deck. The problem is, every deck just plays such a ridicolous card advantage engine, with powerful cards that there is little room for innovation. The sieve deck verhey's got (i prefer my list, but w/ever, kinda failed for Lovett last weekend) tries to fight this by not caring what the opponent is doing, and RDW works in a similar way. Its not a very open format really, which upsets me, I see very little room to build interesting decks. Asides brad Nelsons deck from last week. Its the spice.

The point of this rant is standard is bad, play brads deck from last week, time seive, or failing that beat face with bant conscritption... :P

[Gary Lynch]

Did you ever have any problems removing the persecutor to win the game?

Richard Plummer said:

Hi chaps - figured i should probably sign up and post rather than just lurking. This is the decklist that i won with at the Gravesend PTQ. It's a Jund build thats good in the mirror (the card that won me most games was Sarkhan, rather than Persecutor), and with the lower curve you're less susceptible to ruinblasters/spreading seas. I also happened to get reasonably lucky that day with my matchups as i played a lot of the mirror: 3 x Maelstrom Pulse
4 x Blightning
3 x Terminate
2 x Consuming Vapours
4 x Lightning Bolt
2 x Sarkhan the Mad
4 x Bloodbraid Elf
4 x Sprouting Thrinax
1 x Siege-gang Commander
4 x Abyssal Persecutor
4 x Putrid Leech

4 x Savage Lands
2 x Raging Ravine
1 x Rootbound Crag
4 x Verdant Catacombs
4 x Dragonskull Summit
1 x Lavaclaw Reaches
4 x Swamp
2 x Forest
3 x Mountain

SB:
2 x Malakir Bloodwitch
2 x Thought Hemorrhage
2 x Duress
4 x Goblin Ruinblaster
1 x Terminate
2 x Grim Discovery
2 x Jund Charm

In terms of the meta going forward, i see 6 decks that should be in a gauntlet that all have good to excellent chances of taking down a tournament: UWr planeswalkers, UW control, R(b)DW, Jund, Mythic, Time Seive/Turbofog. I don't rate polymorph too highly to be honest and while it can win games i don't think it will be consistent enough to win a tourney.

[Richard Plummer]

Nope, never had any problems removing Percy - mostly my opponents do it for me before they let it smash them upside the head.

Also, i would pretty much always name OtV for a thought hemo against Sieve.